WACO the rules of engagement

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bamawrx

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I just purchased and viewed the documentary "WACO The Rules of Engagement". The video is damning. I am loaning it to a fellow THR member and I will mail this video at my expense to anyone that wishes to view it. My only request is that the THR member then mail the video to another requesting member at their own expense.

It is 136 min long VHS and has no profanity but does have some graphic images that are not suitable for children.

PM me if you are interested in having the tape sent to you. The shipping was only a $1.50 media mail to me from the seller, so we aren't talking about major money.
 
I, (and www.brassroots.org ) arranged to have W:TROE shown (film version) at the Tempe Valley Art Theater back in the late 1990s. We hoped it would run for the weekend. It ran for several weeks. I think it might have broken a record eclipsed only by Michael Moore's "F-9/11."

The projectionist there was a pal of Randy Weaver of Ruby Ridge fame.

Rick
 
When I saw the FLIR video and realized that the Branch Davidians who were attempting to escape from the back of the burning building were being fired upon with automatic weapons, I sobbed for a full minute, maybe more.

Some people saw the FLIR videos differently, however. Ian Goddard, for instance, believes that the videos show thermal reflection from metal on the ground that is moving in the wind.
 
I had a DIVX rip of it a few months ago, but I lost it when my RAID 0 went down :cuss:

Those people in that compound were outright screwed by the ATF/FBI. The conversation between one of the Dividians and the FBI negotiator about the machine guns on the helicopter was mind boggling. First the FBI completely denies guns on that helicopter, then goes to there might have been guns on the helicopter, to there were machine guns and guardsman shooting at dividans on the helicopter.

This documentary really opened my eyes to Sen. Charles Schumer. I could not believe his comments in the Senate hearings. He is absolutely insane if he believes half of what he was saying; brazenly defending the FBI/ATF when they were clearly in the wrong. :cuss:

The one person I did get a good feeling from was the local Waco, TX sheriff. He seemed like a good man, just doing his job. I can't say the same for the rest of the guys out there.

It still drives me crazy just to think about pumping all that CS gas in there, knowing full well there was no way for them to put a fire out.

The media, even to this day still calls the Dividians a "cult". After seeing this it really changed my mind about what happened in Waco, and what the federal government is really capable of if they want you to stop existing.

This whole situation makes me want to projectile vomit on my keyboard and monitor. Even though it probably makes me seem like a loon, every time somebody brings up Waco I take the time to explain what it was all about. Of course in the end I send them to get this movie. Truly an eye opener.
 
Yeah, so we're to believe in the whopping two minutes from when I posted, you read it all, then posted yourself.

Hey, why let anything get in the way of your preconceived notions, right? :rolleyes:
 
I've followed, written about and even spoken about Waco since shortly after it happened. I hardly need to read that specific link to be familar with that convenient interpretation of events. Or do you think everyone is ignorant of everything until they read it here, preferrably when posted by you?
 
Rules of Engagement was released in 1997, the independent analysis of the IR and other imagery by a British Company, as ordered by the court, was not completed until 2000.

Hey, why worry about things like facts, when there is an Oscar nominated documentary to base opinions on. Rules of Engagement always makes me think of another "fact filled" documentary, the Oscar winning documentary, Bowling for Columbine. :rolleyes:
 
So you're saying that I am not unaware of data, only unaware of data after "Rules"? Yes, you're right. I haven't followed anything of interest to me in 8 years. :rolleyes:

The only difference between "Rules" and "Columbine" would be that one is fantasy and the other is reality. You can pick which you believe is which.
 
I'm positive there's a torrent somewhere of it. I'll look.


EDIT: Torrent here .



After reading up on a few links, I'm not so sure that there's any evidence of gunfire on the FLIR - the damning aspect of this whole thing is the lies in court, the HUGE list of "guns", to include PARTS. And, of course, the beautiful things dug out of a wrecked, burned out building... in pristine condition?
 

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Has the conclusion reached by VDK, that the flashes seen on the Waco FLIR footage was thermal reflection from debris, been independently duplicated?

Same question for FLIR footage of gunfire. Any examples of such independent of the Waco event?
 
I was one of those who thought the Waco folks were a bunch of kooks who'd killed themselves. That is until I saw the Waco film mentioned here. It actually made me nauseous with fear for what my "free" country was turning into. The scope of this deceit boggles the mind if you really think about it.

About this "FLIR was flashes of reflected sunlight" and other such nonsense. At the time I got a copy of the tape the FLIR footage really grabbed my attention. I also remembered that a person I knew was an technician who actually worked for a company that makes and services FLIR units. I loaned this person the Waco tape. She was even more shook up than I was. She said that Waco FLIR expert's take on the FLIR footage was dead on. Only heat can make that kind of signature for a FLIR camera.
 
I have seen this on the dish but do not remember which channel it was on, maybe an Encore channel. They also had one on about Ruby Ridge.

It does a good job making the gov't look bad. Of course the gov't did most of that work themselves.
 
So, are some of you saying that the Dividians were not a cult, and were not a bunch of "kooks" as someone put it?

Whether the FBI/ATF was right or wrong is a seperate issue and their actions should not have been determined by the religious beliefs of the members, but if I remember correctly some of their beliefs and practices might indeed hint at cult status.

I stress, this comment is NOT a defense of the government's actions.
 
Back in my comparative religions class (Catholic high school, ya know) we went over the definitions of "cults." The teacher wasn't amused when I pointed out that according to their definitions, the Catholic Church met most of the guidelines as well...

You need to watch these sorts of accusations. There are people here (and in the US in general), who would happily label catholics, mormons, jehova's witnesses, quakers, and other non-mainstream non-fundamentalist groups "cults." Others would do the same with the fundies.

There's this interesting thing about this country though: historically, we've always valued religious freedom more than any other nation on earth. It's even codified in the first amendment to the constitution.

To suggest that it was somehow more OK to burn children to death in their homebuilt church because it was really a "compound" and they weren't so much churchgoers but a "kooky cult" strikes me as a terribly offensive way to view the entire situation.

Dammit, I want to live in a country where the government doesn't burn any children to death in any buildings, whether they're viewed as a legitimate church or not. But my standards might be higher than most...
 
To suggest that it was somehow more OK to burn children to death in their homebuilt church because it was really a "compound" and they weren't so much churchgoers but a "kooky cult" strikes me as a terribly offensive way to view the entire situation.
Click to expand...
Amen to that. Remember in the movie Patriot when the Dragoons rounded up the people in a church and set it afire? How many people do you know who have said that could never happen in America today? Remember Waco?

Sadly, that date and our government's actions have been eclipsed in the contemporary media by remembering the anniversary of the OK City bombing instead.
 
sindawe,

It is simply too much of a stretch to say that these flashes were just reflections off of something on the ground. Why? You can clearly see two people in the prone position on the tape with the "flashes" directly in front of each of them. It is also interesting that these "flashes" are at a uniform cadence. In other words they are clearly automatic gun fire! What else in nature reflects heat for a short interval and then repeats the heat reflection at a rate of many hundreds of reflections per min?

It is also interesting that these government assassins (what else should we call them) are positioned to prevent the escape of the burning buildings occupants.

I was pissed when the FBI guys very carefully stated in the hearings that "the FBI didn't fire a single shot". I guess the government assassins were not FBI agents. OK fine, but did a gov agent fire a single shot? Its on tape and they still got away with it. Just amazing.

And it is equally amazing that each of the participants are still alive and well today.
 
Sadly, that date and our government's actions have been eclipsed in the contemporary media by remembering the anniversary of the OK City bombing instead.
Click to expand...

If anything, Waco is presented as a footnote as a possible motive for McVeigh & Co.

I also find it fascinating and to the high caliber of this group who detest the actions at Waco that no one has has suggested (or would be willing to accept the notion) that the acts at Waco and OKC are morally equivalent.
 
"Dammit, I want to live in a country where the government doesn't burn any children to death in any buildings, whether they're viewed as a legitimate church or not."

Ditto.

From what I've read and seen, Koresh was probably a kook. Being a kook should land you in a mental facility, not shot and roasted among your family and friends. I'm sure the Davidians had their warts, but after seeing that video I now call suspect any of the official evidence that was used to excuse what was done them. Besides the FLIR footage the most damning thing I saw was that Sherriff crying about what had happened. Those tears from a grizled old lawman spoke volumns.
 
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