Wad cutters

[deadeye dick]

Picked up a 500 count box of 148 Gr. double end wadcutters at the local gun show this weekend. Measure .357 Never loaded or shot any and want to know if you load them the same as LSWC. I will be shooting them in a 38SP.--357 MAG. Blackhawk. They have crimp grooves.

 

[Wil Terry]

NO! You do not load them " the same " as you do SWC bullets. PLEASE read your loading manuals for data on 38WC loads as that is standard fare in all of 'em since 1910 or somesuch. Litterally reems of loading data on them available.
And so it goes...

 

[witchhunter]

They probably should measure .358 to shoot well, but try em anyway. Yes use only dewc data.

 

[oneounceload]

Most folks load them flush with the case mouth or just a smidge above it, so powder loads are reduced significantly.

 

[GBExpat]

NO! You do not load them " the same " as you do SWC bullets. PLEASE read your loading manuals for data on 38WC loads as that is standard fare in all of 'em since 1910 or somesuch. Litterally reems of loading data on them available.
And so it goes...

Whoa! Did you simply have a Bad Day or are you always this friendly & accommodating?

 

[sean1129]

Whoa! Did you simply have a Bad Day or are you always this friendly & accommodating?

I think he's mostly pointing out that many are quick to ask questions of forums and such without attempting to do some reading to verify for themselves. It can be quite dangerous/misleading in some circumstances, depending on the question asked.

All of the DEWC's I've ever loaded have a crimp groove about 1/8'' from each side, which leaves a slight amount of lead sticking out of the case when loaded.

 

[Pelo801]

I'm sure the point trying to be made is that DEWC are sat into the case deeper than SWC type bullets are. This reduces internal case capacity, which in turn would increase pressures for an equal powder charge.

 

[deadeye dick]

I think he's mostly pointing out that many are quick to ask questions of forums and such without attempting to do some reading to verify for themselves. It can be quite dangerous/misleading in some circumstances, depending on the question asked.

All of the DEWC's I've ever loaded have a crimp groove about 1/8'' from each side, which leaves a slight amount of lead sticking out of the case when loaded.

I have 4 manuals and will defenitly do the research. I figured I would ask the opinion of you guys to add to my knowledge. I would not load anything I am not 100% sure of. Im sure you crimp at the groove. does anyone have a favorite load data?

 

[mavracer]

I use 3.0 of ww231 in special cases.

 

[moxie]

I load DEWC cast the same as HBWC swaged. That is, just a "smidge" above flush, no crimp whatsoever. No need to crimp a very low recoiling round. With virtually the whole bullet as one big bearing surface, it's not going anywhere until you tell it to.

My favorite load with the DEWCs is 3.0 grs. Bullseye.

 

[cfullgraf]

Generally speaking, folks load wadcutters to target velocities. Many of the wadcutters are of a hardness that if driven too fast will lead the barrel.

Reputable published data for 38 Special wadcutters should be easily found. If you want to use 357 Magnum cases, not so much. I guess the authors of reloading books figure if you are shooting magnum guns, you will only use magnum ammunition.

To match the velocity of 38 Special DEWC in a 357 Magnum case, you probably would need a little more powder, maybe a tenth or two tenths of a grain or so. A search may bring up some information about this.

While solid base wadcutters, such as DEWC, could be driven faster, I am not sure what their flight characteristics would be with the big blunt nose of the bullet. On the other hand, driving any bullet is driven to slow, it may not exit the barrel.

One thing to remember, hollow base wadcutters, HBWC, have a very definite velocity limit. If driven too hard, the skirt of the bullet can blow off causing a barrel obstruction.

 

[Mad Chemist]

For .38spl, I seat the bullet flush with the case mouth and apply a light roll crimp.

For .38S&W I seat to the crimp groove and leave a small portion of the bullet outside of the case. I use the same light roll crimp.

Please be aware that hollow base wadcutters and double ended wadcuters are not the same. HBWC will have a lower charge range than the DEWC bullets.

 

[Dframe]

I shoot them over a medium charge of trail boss. Data are readily available.

 

[sellersm]

I think he's mostly pointing out that many are quick to ask questions of forums and such without attempting to do some reading to verify for themselves. It can be quite dangerous/misleading in some circumstances, depending on the question asked.

All of the DEWC's I've ever loaded have a crimp groove about 1/8'' from each side, which leaves a slight amount of lead sticking out of the case when loaded.

I seat my DEWC so I can crimp slightly in the crimp groove, as stated above.

My load is usually around 2.9gr of Bullseye, or thereabouts.

 

[mdi]

Whoa! Did you simply have a Bad Day or are you always this friendly & accommodating?

Naw, just a typical Wil Terry reply; good info but tactless...

For someone who has no experience with DEWC, just go with starting loads from your manual (cast not swaged). I quite often use a DEWC that has crimp grooves and just use a light roll crimp in the groove, mostly for consistency. As noted above, ,357" may be on the small side anf cause leading, but give 'em a try (best starting diameter for any lead bullet is the same diameter as the cylinder throats; one of my .38 has ,359" throats so I size my bullets to .359".).

 

[Sunray]

"...HBWC will have a lower charge range than the DEWC bullets..." Nope. You load for the bullet weight not the shape of its base.
DEWC's are loaded flush with the case mouth and no crimp. Forget the crimp grooves altogether. There should be lube on the bullet though. No lube is bad. Not unsafe though.
Otherwise, they are indeed loaded just like an SWC. Only the OAL is different.
148 grain WC's(either HB's or DE's) and 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye has been the standard .38 Special target load for eons. You can load .357 brass with the same load with zero issues.

 

[TimSr]

I'm sure you got your answer by now, but I'm going to hopefully clarify rather than complicate.

We typically browse similar bullet weights for ideas which you cannot do with a DEWC. Because of the seating depth, they generate higher pressures. You seat and lightly crimp in the cannelure which gives you a little of the bullet sticking out of the case.

There isn't much data for DEWC because the major bullet makers do not make them. They are sold by smaller companies that cast bullets, and are usually cast harder than

HBWC are typically soft cold swaged lead with a hollow base that greatly limits how high they can be loaded. You can use data for them, but DEWC can be loaded significantly faster than a HBWC if desired. If they are a harder lead, loading warmer might improve accurracy.

Old Speer manuals list data for a Bevel Base WC (soft lead) which is better data to use than HBWC. Lyman manuals will contain data for more similar bullets.

Wadcutters are mostly used for very light target loads, so most data will have a very high margin for error on the top side. (Don't load under minimum)


I did a lot of personal R&D in loading cast DEWC to upper (below +P).38Spl potential and can share if you are interested when i was working up self defense loads. I also have some .357 data I got from a member of another forum. If you are just punching paper, you are probably better to stay with the very mild target loads.

 

[deadeye dick]

TimSr,
Just loading for targets and experimenting with various bullets. Thanks to all for the great info.

 

[Walkalong]

"...HBWC will have a lower charge range than the DEWC bullets..." Nope. You load for the bullet weight not the shape of its base.

That is wrong in this case. Everyone is indeed correct when they say to load the HBWC to lower pressures and velocities than the solid DEWC. It has nothing to do with the weight of the bullet but with the strength of the bullet. The HBWC is soft lead with a thin skirt which cannot be driven as hard as the solid, and usually much harder alloyed, DEWC. It is written about inmost every load manual.

 

[Walkalong]

Some like to roll crimp over the front edge and some like to leave some sticking out to align in the throats.

A couple of different ways to load the HBWC.

 

[mdi]

FWIW; loaded a bunch of HBWC but got tired of the cost as I could buy DEWC much cheaper. I loaded both with 2.9 gr. Bullseye. No need to load a DEWC higher just because you can. Construction dictates lower charges with a HB, but you don't hafta load a DEWC higher because it'll take higher pressures and not come apart...

But my house gun uses 150 gr. DEWC over a stiff charge of W231.

 

[Walkalong]

I used to shoot a lot of DEWCs in .38 Spl. I always used a light roll crimp into the crimp groove.

Check load data, use the data listed on the sticky note at your own risk.

 

[Hondo 60]

Mad Chemist said:
For .38spl, I seat the bullet flush with the case mouth and apply a light roll crimp.

Yup, me too. They end up with an OAL the same as empty brass.

like the middle one

 

[bantam9]

Quote:
Mad Chemist said:
For .38spl, I seat the bullet flush with the case mouth and apply a light roll crimp.
Yup, me too. They end up with an OAL the same as empty brass.


+1 to that here

 

[sellersm]

+1 to what Walkalong posted. That's what mine look like! All my revolvers love them like that, except I'm using Bullseye.