Wad size(s) for brass and plastic hulls with black powder

[BullRunBear]

I have a bunch of 12 ga. Winchester AA once fired hulls and will be getting some Magtech brass hulls. I want to load up some BP shells to use in an old Stevens side by side. I'll be using a Lee loader kit (whack-a-mole). These will be light loads for informal trap shooting. (I've read that the plastic hulls are usually only good for one firing but that doesn't matter since I inherited over 500 of them. I consider them throw aways. I've read that the brass hulls are good for multiple reloads.)

Anyone know what size wads and cards to use for this? And do the brass hulls use the same size wads and cards as the AAs?

I enjoy loading and shooting 45 Colt with BP. Trap shooting with BP shells should be a lot of fun.

Thanks for any help.

Jeff

 

[troy fairweather]

Get 11ga wads and nitro card for the brass shells, some even get 10ga for the over shot cards, I glue them in so 12or 11 are fine for me. I make over shot cards anyway with a old 12ga shotgun choke tube. You can split a nitro card 3 ways to make over shot cards to.

For gluing I like the gorilla glue clear, it's crap glue but drys rubbery and work good for the shot cards.

I have made a simple tool to help load these brass shells and deprime, get some wooden dowl just smaller then the cases inside, drill one side with a small Finish nail to be used as a decaping pin. The cost side of the wood use to push in the wads and cards.

 

[44 Dave]

I have been using AA 12 gauge hulls and plastic AA shot wads over 50 gr. of FF for SASS shooting. With no cleaning issues, and get 2 or 3 reloads before the hull looks to burnt.

 

[Seedy Character]

I have been using AA 12 gauge hulls and plastic AA shot wads over 50 gr. of FF for SASS shooting. With no cleaning issues, and get 2 or 3 reloads before the hull looks to burnt.

I acquired a case of Federal paper hulls. Loaded them with 50 gr FFg and AA 1 oz wad, for CAS. Get 2-3 loadings. They are fun.

 

[BullRunBear]

Folks,
Thank you. This is exactly the information I needed.

I don't hunt anymore (not very mobile these days). If I did I would still use the old CVA 12 Ga. SxS muzzleloader. It always did the job. But it is too slow to load if shooting trap with others, so I thought the BP shells would be fun and a good compromise. Plus I'm strange. I actually enjoy reloading.

Jeff

 

[Bibbyman]

I use 10g plastic cups in 12 guage Magtec brass hulls.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I use those fancy pink hulls for my Damascus Parker. Have reloaded them at least 3 times with no problems. I like the color because I can quickly identify the blackpowder shells and not get them mixed up with others.

 

[.38 Special]

Ballistic Products is a treasure trove for such pursuits. I use their recommendations for BP in brass hulls with perfect success. This includes 11 gauge wads and 10 gauge overshot cards.

I have no experience with BP in plastic hulls (or with plastic cups) so cannot offer advice on that count.

I don't believe the Lee loader is useful with brass shells, and I use the RCBS 12 gauge shotshell die in an oversize metallic cartridge press. This actually is unnecessary - and maybe even foolish - as 12 gauge brass really doesn't need to be sized after use with BP. I should probably just tumble it, de- and re-cap, and then proceed with loading.

 

[Zygodactyl]

I remember reading an article about 50 years ago about a French practice of loading brass shells. Instead of gluing the over shot wad into the case they held it in mechanically. They drilled small holes in the top of the case and inserted toothpicks, so they crossed over the card. They then broke them flush with the outside of the case. I believe they used the flat toothpicks.

 

[paul harm]

Zyg, now that's a new one I never heard of. If you're gonna use the same load every time that may be pretty good idea. Sounds like more work than I'd want to do.
I've been loading both brass and plastic or paper shells with BP for years. BP burns at a higher heat and will melt plastic shotgun wads meant for shot. The plastic around a sabot has different compounds in it, so they don't melt. Some guys seem to get away with plastic wads but I don't think they're shooting 25, 50, or a 100 in one day like trap shooters. I have at SxS shoots and even with fiber wads there's still some cleaning to do when done. I friend years ago tried plastic wads and when done for the day it looked like snakes were growing out of the end of his barrels.
I use a old Mec Jr to reload em and it has some leverage when seating wads so I use 10ga OP cards, 11ga cushion wads, and 10ga OS cards in the brass shells. In plastic or paper shells just 12ga fiber wads and cards. You could probably just use 11ga everything in brass. I glued in the OS card with plain ol white glue. Just use thin, .028, OS cards so you don't get a donut in your pattern [ hole in the middle ]. And your old Lee will work just fine.
You'll know when it's time to stop using the plastic shells. You'll get burn hole through the shell just above the brass base.
You sound like you're on the mature, experience side of life and maybe some soft shooting shells are in order [ and cheaper to make ]. Those old [ or you can still get a plastic adjustable one from BPI ] measures made for shotguns that measure both shot and BP would come in handy - they're pretty cheap. I load 1oz of shot and 70grs of 3f. A usual load is 1 1/8oz and 82grs of 2F. Don't forget to clean with hot soapy then clear water after each day of shooting. Welcome to the dark side.

 

[BullRunBear]

More thanks for all the responses. I'm not surprised though. Ask a question on The High Road about a specific procedure or measurement and get those answers, decades of related experience overall, and some related history. (Heck, a few folks are even older than I am with longer perspective. Doesn't seem to happen that much these days. ) This forum is great.

It will be fun to experiment with these BP shells. Since I'm doing this strictly for fun, not competition, I can take my time and see what works best in the SxS. And it just occurred to me that I have an ancient but functional H&R 12 ga. single shot in the back of closet. Another means to test the BP shells.

Jeff

 

[paul harm]

Bull, over the years I've probably owned and shot over 20 Damascus barreled SXSs. I normally shoot low pressure nitro loads, but on occasion use BP. We go to SxS Shoots and my friend or two and I like to use smoke. Those are usually 100 to 150 shots in one day. And then there are times at my local club I use it. I like to loan someone a shell if they need one. My buddy was shooting two shells at a bird in skeet if he missed the first shot. Well, about station six he was gonna run out so I offered him one of mine. I didn't tell him it was BP, just said it was guaranteed to smoke the bird. He was shooting a ported Browning O/U, and it was almost dark out. The gun want off, flame came out of the porting, he kind of tossed the gun up in the air thinking he blew it up. I can't repeat the language he used but it ended in he'd never ask me for another shell. I know when I shoot trap or skeet with BP the other shooters always complain about all the smoke stopping them from shooting. Fun to watch em whine.
I throw a SxS Shoot each year since 2005 and a old guy with a handlebar mustache and period correct clothing would show up shooting BP in a 10ga hammergun. I never ask what his load was, but the ground would shake and he'd laugh like hell whether he hit the bird or not. Man, did he ever enjoy himself.
It's kind a hard to over do it with BP in a shotgun shell. One normally loads by VOLUME a equal part of shot to powder. Along with all the wads it's almost impossible to load too much powder. Those adjustable measures for a couple of bucks [ todays in plastic, the old ones at gun shows or maybe Amazon are brass with a wooden handle ] have drams and ounces of shot marked on the side. 2 1/2 drams of powder [ one dram equals 27.3 grains of powder ] and 1 oz of shot, 3 drams and 1 1/8 oz of shot, and so on. The rest of the space is a OP card and cushion wad to get the proper load height for a good looking crimp. The old duck hunters used all brass shells. They'd have a shotbag and powder flask slung over their shoulders, some wads and primers in a bag along with some extra brass shells. With a couple of simple hand tools they could reload all they needed for a day or two of shooting. I have all the old tools and a couple of 12 and 10 gauge brass shells I keep around just to look at them thinking of the stories they could tell.