walmart selling federal hst

[Rubber_Duck]

^^^^^

That's some interesting info about the 9BPLE. I will admit that is an overlooked round for me but I have used the 9BP ammo before and I actually did like that it fed very reliably in any 9mm gun I've tried it in. Now I'm not here to argue, I'm sure the HST and the 9BPLE are both excellent rounds and nobody is going to volunteer to be shot with either. But I'm going to keep an eye out for 9BPLE as well.

 

[orionengnr]

I will say that in the Federal line of 9mm SD rounds. Nothing beats the +p+ 115 grain 9BPLE. Nothing! That is not opinion. That is medical fact.

Twenty or thirty years ago, that would be a fact.
Today, I would like to see anything that supports this assertion.

I still have a box or two of 9BPLE, but it has been sitting gathering dust for well over 10 years....while my carry 9mm is loaded with Winchester Ranger 127 +p+.

Convince me that I'm wrong.

 

[HOOfan_1]

9BLE has been documented to give actual hydro-static shock to the shot victim. Do an internet search.
And the wound cavity is just massive compared to the HST. The +p+ 115 gr is moving upwards of close to 1400 fps. If not over that from a service pistol. That makes all the difference compared to 1150 fps from the 124 +P HST.

And how does the 115 grain screamer compare in penetration to a 124 grain or 147 grain bullet?

 

[Armor Snail]

YES!

9BPLE is the king of 9mm. And it beats other calibers too.

Yup.

Sometimes old school is best school.

That round has put down plenty of BG's quite effectively.


Even better when you buy it for $17 per 50

 

[orionengnr]

9BLE has been documented to give actual hydro-static shock to the shot victim.

From everything I've read (for years), nothing short of a rifle round @2000fps+ is capable of actual hydrostatic shock.

9BPLE is not magic. It was a good round in its day. Hydra Shok was a good round in its day. Lots of rounds were good in their day.

HST is what I would buy today if I needed to replenish (I will one day).

I remain unconvinced on the 9BPLE, or any other 25-30 year old round. Better than FMJ? Sure.
Better than some? Probably.
Better than more modern designs? Doubtful, and I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

 

[Mainsail]

I'm not a 9mm fan anyway, but I wouldn't fire a +P+ out of any of my guns. +P yes, but +P+ has no definition so it could be anything. If you're unhappy with the performance of a caliber, get a different caliber. I like what I've been reading on .357Sig- great performance without needing to extrapolate beyond +P to get there.

 

[cheygriz]

I was issued 9BPLE `115 +P+ and carried it for 10 years.,

I'm retired, but still carry it. IMHO, it's still the best SD load BY FAR.

I'm more interested in 'street cred" than shooting jello. 9BPLE simply works in the real world. The officers who carry it have faith in it because it works.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

And the wound cavity is just massive compared to the HST. The +p+ 115 gr is moving upwards of close to 1400 fps. If not over that from a service pistol. That makes all the difference compared to 1150 fps from the 124 +P HST.

All of my reading on this topic suggests the following. If you have better or contradictory info, please share it with us -- it may be that I've not read enough...

The size of the temporary wound cavity is impressive when looking at GEL tests, but most real-world evaluations of shootings (both surgeons fixing things after the conflict is over, if the person shot survives) or post-mortem evaluations if he/she doesn't, suggests that wound cavity size may not matter all that much.

Wound cavity size seems related to blood loss, but someone who is bleeding out can still kill you if they bleed out slowly. Some folks just keep on coming (and shooting or knifing) until you hit something vital, like the spine, heart, brain, or a major bone structure like the hip or thigh that causes them to go down, etc.) What matters MOST is getting the other person to stop attacking you as quickly as possible. As best I can tell, wound cavity size/damage doesn't seem to play too big a role in quick stops -- but as I noted above, if you have better information on this, please share.

 

[Water-Man]

Shot placement - penetration depth - in that order.

 

[PabloJ]

I have seen Federal Classic and Winchester PDX1 in several calibers, but never HST rounds. I no longer buy ammo at Walmart because I can pay $1 or $2 more per box at LGS and can get out of the store quicker.
Now that I own .45ACP I have no interest in buying JHP ammo.

 

[Lj1941]

9BLE has been documented to give actual hydro-static shock to the shot victim. Do an internet search.
And the wound cavity is just massive compared to the HST. The +p+ 115 gr is moving upwards of close to 1400 fps. If not over that from a service pistol. That makes all the difference compared to 1150 fps from the 124 +P HST.

Just wondering if plus P plus in any gun isn't just playing Russian roulette. There are no pressure specs for +P+ rounds like there is for +P. Most of today's guns are rated by the makers for + Ps but none for +P+.That tells me not to take a chance of blowing up my weapon.

 

[PabloJ]

In many calibers all that +P (higher average cartridge operating gas pressure) accomplishes is pride ammo companies with more shelf presence on shelves of local sporting goods stores and on the net. I noticed .38Spl +P is new label for original loading. The 9mm Luger +P is just 9x19 loaded to 9mm NATO level loads which are just CIP loadings for that particular caliber.

 

[19-3Ben]

I will say that in the Federal line of 9mm SD rounds. Nothing beats the +p+ 115 grain 9BPLE. Nothing! That is not opinion. That is medical fact.

Back in the early 1990s, sure. But ammo has improved significantly since the 9BPLE was king of the hill. These days, with much more advanced bonded core rounds in our modern SD ammo landings, ammo companies have drastically reduced the core/jacket separations and failures to expand due to clogging that older rounds like the 9BPLE experienced. The 9BPLE is just as good as it ever was. Same with Hydrashock, the original Golden Sabre, and Silver Tip.
Times change, ammo tech advances, and just because something was the top of the heap back in it's day, does not mean it hasn't been surpassed by the likes of Gold Dot, HST, Ranger T/PDX, and a few others.

9BLE has been documented to give actual hydro-static shock to the shot victim. Do an internet search.

You're the one making the claim. The burden is on you to do the research to back it up. Frankly, I find it doubtful at best. No pistol round is going to cause hydrostatic shock.

 

[Eb1]

I am not making the claim..Well yeah I said it, but it isn't hoopla. There was an article from way back when, and I am sure most have seen it, but would like me to find it again. I saved it on a HDD somewhere, but over the years...
Basically the doctor in the ER was mentioning the theory of HS, and said that other than the 125 grain Semi-Jacket .357 Magnum the Federal 9BPLE did so such effects. As one patient had been hit in the chest, but the cause of death was trauma to the heart, but the bullet didn't hit the heart.
New things come along all the time. It doesn't mean that they are better. I didn't think I'd open a can of worms. I thought everyone knew about the old standard 9mm 115 gr +P+.

Hey I have 147 grain +P Underwood loaded in my 9mm



tnoutdoors9's test 9BLE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY
The trauma and devastation compared to the Gold Dots Bonded +P and HST +P rounds is clear that the new ammo doesn't do the damage in gel, and I would think this would translate to "street credit". Although a standard 124 gr HST did work in one situation that I am familiar.

tnoutdoors9's test UW 147+P+: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMiI8VcPQ3c
Here he mentions "Shockwave" i.e. Hydro-Static Shock.

If I had the 9BPLE at this moment in my ammo for 9mm it would be loaded instead of the UW 147 +P+. But IMO and YOMV I find the UW ammo to be effective at expanding quickly, and is very accurate in my 9mm handgun.

I'll try to find that essay or ammo comparison site which had a link to the essay. The 9BPLE's wound channel from the videos looks very close to the .357 Sig if not better.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Gel blocks don't have bones or wear big poofy jackets

the +P+ 115 bullet fragmented and didn't penetrate as well as the standard pressure 124 grain HST either.

 

[19-3Ben]

Now I'm not here to argue, I'm sure the HST and the 9BPLE are both excellent rounds and nobody is going to volunteer to be shot with either. But I'm going to keep an eye out for 9BPLE as well.

It's worth keeping an eye out for. I'll add to my previous post, that I do keep some 9BPLE on hand. I bought some for about $16/box about 6 months ago, and stocked it up because I figured that should one of those events we don't discuss on THR should happen, I would like to have it should my main ammo (all HST and/or Hornady Critical Duty) runs out. It's the second string before resorting to FMJ. I figure it's not up to the standard of modern ammo, but it's still good, and certainly more effective than FMJ. Since these days it's cheap, it's worth stocking as a backup.
The likelihood it'll ever get used... admittedly, very slim.

 

[Eb1]

I think there is a brassfetcher of 9BPLE somewhere with plates and bone/tissue simulation. I know personally what Standard 124 gr HST will do. I will not get into that time of my life.

I have also seen what 9BPLE does to large does out of a 4" XD9. A 2007 model not the new fandango red/green plastic sights, etc. It wasn't pretty. Doubt if you will, but everyone needs the little saw blades on their hollow points or the bullets are of an archaic time, and they don't work any longer.

I'd take the 9BPLE over anything on the market for 9mm. If I could find some right now. I can't so it is the UW 147 +P+ bonded Gold Dots. Not my favorite bullet, but it works pretty consistent.
I am still looking for that NY ER Doctors reports on the Federal 9BPLE.

 

[19-3Ben]

Doubt if you will, but everyone needs the little saw blades on their hollow points or the bullets are of an archaic time, and they don't work any longer.

A) Nobody is talking about saw blades on hollow points. Not sure where you're getting that.
B) Nobody said the 9BPLE doesn't work any longer. This is either an inaccurate logical jump, or a red herring. Either way, it doesn't serve the conversation. All that is being said, is that in terms of efficacy 9BPLE has been surpassed in the last 20 years of technological advances.

I have also seen what 9BPLE does to large does out of a 4" XD9.

Someone went deer hunting with a 4" bbl 9mm handgun loaded with SD rounds?


Edit to add:
I just realized that all this talk of the 9BLPE has completely derailed the OP's question about HST at Walmart. To the OP, I apologize for my contribution to the derailment. I'm going to bow out of this now, but Eb1, if you want to continue discussing this, I'll happily do so in PM with you.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

SGAmmo almost always has 9BPLE although right now they're out. AmmuntionDepot has it in stock though at a good price. I carry HST but I don't recall ever not being able to find 9BPLE.

 

[ritepath]

Wait I want to play your typical walmart bashing dunce...


That Federal HST you see at wal-mart is reject ammo that didn't make it through QC.

No wait I can do better:


That federal uses cheap Russian primers and powder, not to mention the lead is from China. Also the brass is thinner walled than real HST ammo.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Wait I want to play your typical walmart bashing dunce...
That Federal HST you see at wal-mart is reject ammo that didn't make it through QC.
No wait I can do better:
That federal uses cheap Russian primers and powder, not to mention the lead is from China. Also the brass is thinner walled than real HST ammo.

Plus, it's past it's expiration date !!!

 

[1John1:9]

Just to clarify. I'm pretty sure that neither Speer nor Federal makes a 147gr +p+ in 9mm. I believe you're referring to the 147 gr +P.
Underwood and Buffalo Bore probably do.
The +p+ designation has no SAAMI specs, as the standard pressure and +P pressure does.

There is 147 gr +P as well as 147 gr standard.
There is 124 gr +P as well as 124 gr standard.
THere is 115 gr +P+, as well as standard and +P.

Edit: Never mind, I see you're talking bout the Underwood........I didn't realize they used Gold Dot bullets!!

 

[dakota1911]

Have to go out and look tomorrow if I get a chance.

 

[jamal28]

Ritepath and mil-dot thanks for info

 

[golden]

Not hst

I just bought some ammo at WALMART and it was not HST. OK with me.

I have found that WALMART is again stocking REMINGTON 100 round boxes of .38 Special +P 125 grain sjhp. They also have the 9m.m. 100 round boxes of the standard velocity 115 grain jhp ammo and sometimes the 100 round boxes of .380ACP 88 grain jhp.

They also have some of the 100 round boxes of WINCHESTER White Box in .38Special and 9m.m. ball. Unfortunately, I have found that the REMINGTON jhp is not much more in .38 Special and FEDERAL aluminum case 9m.m. is even cheaper in 50 round boxes.

All of this ammo is pretty cheap when compared to the 20, 25 and even 50 round boxes of self defense ammo.
I use it for practice and in the case of .38 Special and 9 m.m., I even use it for self defense ammo.
I do not use a 2 inch .38 Special anymore, so the REMINGTON .38 Special +P load out of a 4 inch or longer .38 Special is good enough for me.

In .357 magnum, I prefer the 50 round WINCHESTER White Box 110 grain jhp. I finally found a box at WALMART for $28.00 a couple of weeks ago. I had not seen it in years. Good ammo at a very good price.

I hope this trend continues. I like the premium ammo as much as the next guy, but I would also like to practice with the same ammo I carry. If I could get 50 round boxes of HST for under $30.00, I would be happy. I would be even happier with the 50 round boxes of FEDERAL 115 grain +P+ ammo for under $20.00 which is what I paid for it the last time I saw it.

I still have some of the 9m.m. +P+ Hydra Shok and .357 Magnum 125 grain jhp I was issued before my agency went to the .40 S&W. So I can carry that as well.

Jim