Walther P1 for concealed carry

[macadore]

Mid-size 9mm single stack 9mm Parabellums seem to very poplar at the moment. I am curious what a modern 9mm can do that a Walther P1 or a Walther P1 Kurtz could not do for less money. I have never owned either, but they seem like they would work well for concealed carry. What are the pros and cons of these firearms?

 

[Trebor]

The P1 is large for it's caliber. For the same size and weight you could carry more rounds in a different gun. Or, you could carry a 8 round 9mm that is smaller and/or lighter.

The P1 is aluminium framed and I have heard of some guys who cracked the frame on their guns. I would stick with standard pressure ammo. That limits your choice on defensive loads. The later guns have reinforcing hexes to strengthen the frame, but I have heard of at least one of those cracking as well.

And finally the P1 was designed before JHP's were the standard and it was designed to shoot ball ammo. Some P1's may shoot JHP reliably, but none of them were designed to do so.

If I had to stick to an inexpensive surplus gun for concealed carry, I'd go with a CZ-82 or a Makarov before I'd pick a P1/ The P1 is just too large and bulky for every day carry, especially with only a 8 round capacity.

 

[macadore]

Thanks

I had not considered the JHP issue.

 

[Onmilo]

Walther P1 pistols are extremely popular in the Middle East and folks seem to pack them around concealed just fine.
Most are loaded with ball ammunition.
There are better choices but this isn't a bad one either.

 

[dfariswheel]

The two biggest limitations of the Walther P-38/P1 is the thickness of the gun, (It's pretty wide) and the non-availability of holsters.

Other than that, if you experiment with ammo until you find a defense ammo that's reliable in that specific gun, and stick with standard load ammo, the Walther is quite usable for CCW.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If there were nothing else but an old Walther P38 with military FMJ ammo available (as it may be in third world countries), you bet I would use it. We are fortunate enough to live where for most of us this is not a consideration.

Anything that suits one's fancy is fine for collecting. For a "working" gun I believe in sticking with a modern design that has a service, replacement part and accessory network.

 

[New_geezer]

I have a P1, with a slide date of 9/82. It included all the various upgrades made in design over the years including the hex bolt. And yes, the frame cracked, even though I never shot anything but standard ammo thru it. The crack was small and hard to find so I suspect the previous owner (it was a consignment piece) might have used high power stuff, discovered the crack, and unloaded the gun - my bad luck. Despite that, I would buy another one if I found a good one but only because I like the design, it's a cheap piece of history, it's smooth operating and generally fun. But I would not consider it for concealed carry. Simply put there are much better choices, guns that are smaller, larger capacity, and don't have the ammo limitations. My P1 also had a tendency to eject straight back which caused some hot moments in undesired locations.

FWIW - Most P1s are sold with two magazines and a police style holster. My P1 never had a problem w/ basic jhp, specifically WWB from Wal-Mart

FYI - regards the hex bolt in a P1 frame. The hex bolt does not reinforce the frame the way most people think. If you examine how the P1 operates, the steel hex bolt keeps the steel locking block from peening the softer aluminum frame when the slide returns to battery after being fired. Over the years the design received upgrades in response to improved ammo such as stronger recoil springs, and heavier slides, hence the need for the bolt to prevent peening the frame. Today, some owners try to put in even heavier duty recoil springs to handle the high powered ammo, but this puts too much stress on the frame both firing and returning to battery. In effect, the frame gets more hammered both coming and going. According to the folks at the p38forum, even older design P1s will shoot fine provided you don't try to use high powered ammo. The best reason for buying a P1 with the hex bolt is simply because it indicates a later production issue and will likely include all the various design upgrades made over the years.

 

[ArmedBear]

My P1 shoots Winchester Super-X JHP just as well as ball.

DA trigger is a bit heavy. Decocker/safety are same control. No cocked-and-locked, which is a bit of a disadvantage if you have a heavy DA pull.

I like my P1, and I have no qualms about using it defensively. However, there are guns that are a lot smaller, lighter and more concealable, and hold 8+1 rounds of 9mm.

 

[cocojo]

I would not hesitate to carry a Walther P1, P5 or P5C. I own a P1 and a P5 and they are extremely accurate guns. I shoot 147 ranger T Winchester rounds and never had any problems with hp's in either pistol. My guns shoots right where I point them. I would choose the Walther over the CZ. These guns sold for almost a thousand dollars when new. I have installed 8 lb wolf recoil springs in both my guns. If you decide to buy one make sure to buy one with the hex bolt cross pin, late 70's early 80's have them. This cross pin helps with any frame cracking from recoil.

 

[ldp4570]

As far as concealment goes for the P1/P38, you can use the same holsters as the 92f series of firearms. Both the same size and thickness. There are lots of folks that carry the 92f's as their CCW. I also own several P38/P1's and P5's. I for one would not feel under, or outgunned by carrying this. I do carry my P5's alot and feel that this is one of the finest designs out there.

 

[New_geezer]

If you decide to buy one make sure to buy one with the hex bolt cross pin, late 70's early 80's have them. This cross pin helps with any frame cracking from recoil.

With all due respect, this is simply mistaken regards the hex bolt. Refer to my earlier post for an explanation.

Looking for a P1 with the hex bolt is still a good idea because it will indicate a later production piece that incorporates all the various upgrades in design and metalurgy that occured over the life of the design.

If your curious, take a look at www.p38forum.com

In the gallery section, under photos by Kyrie Ellis, there is a selection called Banner P1. It gives a good description of all the various markings you will likely find on a P1, and usually there are many. The whole forum has a lot of information on the P1 as well as other old Walthers and German military pistols.