Walther PPK/S .380, Self Defense Gun??

[usnavymasterchief]

I own several handguns which I dearly love. My favorite carry gun is a Glock33 .357 Sig or my well proven Kel-Tec P11 9mm.
I recently acquired a Walther PPK/S .380. I have taken the PPK to the range and it ran very well with FMJ rounds. I intend to polish the feed ramp and throat because I have heard and read that PPK's don't feed JHP's very well.
I live in West Central Florida and it's hot 10 months of the year and my Glock and P11 are dual stack mag guns consequently they are rather "blocky" and hard to conceal under a "t"shirt and shorts which is our yearly uniform down here. Which leads me to my question. Is the PPK/S .380 an adequate self defense weapon when loaded with RBCD frangibles or Cor-Bon JHP's?
I've read all the stories about the died in the wool 1911 guys who can conceal there weapons in a thong but for older fat farts like me that would be hard. The PPK/S just tucks in perfectly and I like the gun a lot.
Please don't suggest I go out and buy the gun you think I should have because I'm gun poor as it is.
Comments pro or con will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Y'all.

 

[priv8ter]

To answer your question:

MasterChief, I shall try to refrain from offering you advise about other guns.

Oh, I can't!

If you were just looking, I would try to convince you to get a Firestorm .380 instead of the Walther. Nice gun, much cheaper.

To address your real question:

It is my opinion, based on research and some personal testing, that a .380 loaded with quality ammo is enough gun for personal defence, provided you can do your job with shot placement. I can't tell you how the RBCD stuff performs, but I have been pleased with the 90gr Federal Hyra-shoks that I use in my wife's .380. Recoil is easily controlled.

My only advise is to try a few brands, and then a box or two of it through your Walther before betting your life on it.

I may be wrong, but in most of the testing I have done, the actual teminal effects of premium ammo don't differ NEARLY as much as their ability to reliably chamber in a gun.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Yes, the Walther PPK/S .380ACP is an effective self defense firearm. Many instructors/writers recommend not going smaller than a .380 for defense.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I carry my Walther PPK .380 occasionally. It's not the .357 magnum I normally depend on, but when you're looking at an hour and a half in a dentist's chair, smaller is significantly better. As far as I'm concerned, the .380 A.C.P. is a minimal round—but better minimal than none at all.

 

[dfariswheel]

There's absolutely nothing wrong about using a Walther PP series gun for self defense.
The ONLY reason I traded mine off, is the Kahr K9 is about the same size, and offers more in the way of grips, power, sights, and trigger action.

I never felt particularly under-armed with the .380 PPK/s.

The exact brand/type of ammo is less important than reliability.

I'd strongly suggest picking a good American premium defense ammo, and firing AT LEAST a full 100 rounds through it before trusting it. I'd try to shoot the entire 100 WITHOUT cleaning or doing anything to the gun, using all the magazines, and starting each mag off with a double action first shot.
Try to shoot at least some of it rapid-fire.

If it'll shoot the 100 rounds WITH NO BOBBLES, I'd be confident in trusting my life to THAT gun, and THAT load.
Change to a different load......do a new 100 round test with that ammo.

I'm basically a coward. I won't trust any gun unless it'll pass this test. It's expensive to buy the ammo, but I'm not going to get any surprises if I need it.

 

[Al Thompson]

Chief, there's a line of thought that says ball ammo in a smaller caliber has one huge advantage - you get the penetration needed. I don't have too many problems with that.

I agree with dfariswheel that you need to put a couple of boxes of what ever you want to carry to ensure reliability.

The other side of the coin is that JHPs "probably" give you an edge with head shots - the edge of the jacket should dig in as opposed to having an inelastic collision between two convex surfaces.

I'd test the JHPs you select and carry them if they meet the reliability standards. In the mean time, I wouldn't feel unarmed if I carryed with ball ammo. I'd just pick my shots a bit more carefully.

 

[PCRCCW]

Id say you did well. The 380 is scoffed at by the Slow and Big guys and others....but in very scientific desert testing of my own...with a very rabid pack of 5# hams that were attacking and we had to defend ourselves....the little bullets did a fair amount of damage. Its very close to the density of a Human, so I feel the testing has merit.

An Average 9mm JHP did similar damage to the allegedly rabid hams...just for noting. +P+ 9mm and Corbon did ALOT more damage, very 40 S&W like, in its exit wounds.

The little 380 was fired from a Rockin fav of mine the CZ83...quality is right up there with the Walther, has a perfect trigger and holds 14 rnds as an added bonus.

We shot Aguila, Federal, Winchester, Corbon, Fiocchi and a couple of others...........the Fiocchi, Corbon and Federal all did quite a bit of damage. Picture a 5 # ham....about 8" in diameter and was shot at from 7-10 yds...the exit wound was around 4-6" with the best 380...taking most of the back side out.

Now the Corbon 9mm and 40 JHP's generally made the entire backside dissapear.

Shoot well

Shoot well

 

[DonGlock26]

I use a Sig P232 for CCW sometimes. I prefer 90gr Golddots. ( I would also use Winchester RangerT) I believe Golddots penetrate about 10" of gel and expand to .60"- not to shabby. Golddots won't fragment due to their construction also.

 

[Tacblack]

A PPK/S has been the most carried gun I have due to size of the pistol. Its a lot better then getting busted a work or going without. I have had 2 (one was stolen at work in my car, now I tend to carry it) and they have both worked very well. I hear some of the newer ones are not as good? The one I have is a 1997 I think.

I intend to polish the feed ramp and throat because I have heard and read that PPK's don't feed JHP's very well.

I hope your going to try some JHP's first, it may not be needed. Both of mine shot Winchester SXT 95 gr. jhps and Federal 90 gr. Hydrashoks just fine. I keep SXT's in it.

I prefer a 9mm for carry but have'nt found one that will replace the PPK/S yet. Had a K40 but still carried the PPK/S when wearing t-shirt etc in the summer.

 

[Dave R]

Like PCRCCW, I did some expansion testing of my own, comparing .380 with 9mm. Except I used wet newsprint instead of ham.

In wet newsprint, the "wound channels" from the .380 were about 2/3 the size & depth of the 9mmm rounds I tried. Maybe 4/5. Speaking subjectively, that's "good enough". They looked like pretty good wound channels.

I only tried one .380 round--the 102gr. Golden Sabre. I recommend you give that one a try. It is the most accurate of the defense loads in my .380 (a FEG clone of the PPK). It has ben perfectly reliable in my gun. It is shaped very much like FMJ ammo. And, as I said, the expansion testing worked pretty well. I had to put 5 layers of denim infront of the newsprint before the 102gr. stopped expanding. The 9mm would go to 7 layers before it stopped expanding.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Master Chief, the PPK/S is a nice pistol - --

Just some observations about the type - - -
It was conceived as a hybrid of the Walther PP and PPK, when the Gun Control Act of 1968 mandated a certain combination of features which accruing minimum "points" to allow import of smaller pistols. Among other factors, the height and length must add up to an arbitrary number. The PPK, with it's six-shot (in cal. .380) frame wouldn't make it, so they simply installed the PPK slide and barrel on the PP (seven shot) frame. The combo worked, size-wise, to satisfy the bureaucrats.

The PP and PPK were beautifully made, graceful looking pistols, relatively accurate with the solidly fixed barrel, and featuring the safety (real or imagined) aspects of double action first round. This was heady stuff, real cutting edge technology in the 1930s. It is a measure of the excellence of the basic design that it remained the preferred small pistol design for decades. While the 7.65 mm (.32 ACP) version was more popular in Europe, the 9mm short (.380 ACP) cartridge greatly improved the pistol's defensive effectiveness .

The "state of the art" status of the Walther DA "pocket" pistols passed when the small, lightweight pistols in full 9mm parabellum caliber were introduced. Many don't see the reason to carry a .380 which is just as large as, and heavier than, a significantly more powerful 9 X 19 mm. The Walthers are still beautiful and relatively easy to shoot well, but their main day in the sun has passed away.

All of which being said, I have a 1966-vintage PPK which I still cherish, as I do my 1908 Colt Pocket Model .380 . I know a couple of guys who still carry single action revolvers as main battery. Even one who claims to regularly carry a Luger. Why not? Sidearms are an immensely personal matter. Nostalgia aside, a person with a cool head, decent shooting skill, and a properly holstered PP, PPK, or PPK/S can be a formidable force.

Best of Luck to you.
Johnny

 

[Gordon]

The only time the Gubbamint authorized me concealed carry, I was issued a S&W mod 12 snub. I thought(ignorantly) S&W gun was too archaic and clunky so I carried a 60's German made ppk in .380 in a shoulder holster around the world and US. There were super vel hollow points available but I found early on that GECO ball was 100% reliable and seemed 'hotter'. I would qualify every 6 months with model 12 with wadcutters and carry the PPK. I had a hard time getting .380 ammo in africa and asia and south america. In mid 70's that job was over for me and I sold the Walther. I wish I had a snubby Model 12 , I have no desire for another .380 PPK oh well older and wiser....

 

[denfoote]

Chief,
The PPK/S is a good gun indeed!! I have an S&W made specimen that is well made and functional in every way. I even carry it on occasion. I would stay away from the frangible rounds and go with a good solid traditional hollow point like the Speer Gold Dot or Federal Hydro-Shok. Unless your gun is of modern manufacture, I would stay away from the hotter rounds like the Cor-Bon. The so-called .380 +P is loaded to 9mm Makarov velocity, which would be just a little bit to hot for the older PPK's!!!
If you do your part, the 9mm kurz will do it's!!!

I live in Arizona. Which, as you know gets a might warm in the summer months. My usual dress is "tactical" shorts, you know, the ones that sort of copy BDU's, and a loose t-shirt, just like you. I also fit into the "Gordo Guero Veijo" class as well. I have hoofed around just about every size gun there is from the Kel-Tek P32 to the Beretta 92FS!! What I have found is that the key to successful, comfortable carry is the belt and the holster. Get the right combination of the two and carrying concealed, even in 115 degree plus heat is a snap!! For the t-shirt uniform, I have found that the belt scabbard or the IWB holster work well for those times that you can wear the shirt un-tucked. Make sure that the shirt is loose enough to not "print". One or two sizes larger than you normally wear is fine!! Don't worry, the "baggy shirt" look is popular now!! For more "formal" dress, I would go with a good pocket holster.

Your Walther will serve you well!!!

 

[usnavymasterchief]

Thank you all for your comments, I sincerely appreciate each and every one. Anyone else care to comment? Thanks again.

 

[tbeb]

I would carry (and did carry) a .380 for self defense if it was 100% reliable with a good hollowpoint. My choice would be any of the following: Federal 90 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP, Federal 90 gr. Hi-Shok JHP, Corbon 90 gr. JHP, Winchester Silvertip 85 gr. JHP.

 

[10-Ring]

If you ca get 100% reliability from the gun using quality defensive ammo, your Walther should serve you well.

 

[Henry Bowman]

It was good enough for Bond, James Bond (until rather recently).

 

[Delmar]

Master Chief,
If you reload, you might try Hornady XTP's. My friend's gets pretty good groups using Accurate #2. One thing about the PPK-there are enough people interested in them, at least around north texas, that you could probably sell the pistol and get something closer to what you might like, or are more familiar with.

 

[jerryd]

380acp

i have appk/s started shooting it and hated it!!! the bevertail kept biting the web of my hand, but my friend said he could fix it,what he did was basiclly what C&S does. he grounf all the sharp edges,and ground off most of the beaver tail cant believe its the same gun!! i have to shoot some more to see if all the dimensions are what i want then it will be polished,will post pics after its done. also never had any problem with any type of ammo,hps,or rn.