Want to buy a do-all rifle

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Jason977

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Sorry for the long blabbering post, but I'm excited that I may soon get to actually purchase my dream rifle that I've been working on spec'ing out and saving for over a year, and I wanted to see what you guys thought:

I want a do-all compromise of a rifle. Right now I hunt with a .270 Rem700. It's a hassle to carry because of the hunting style sling, and I'm always afraid of scratching it. Plus, I hate to shoot it. It's hard to admit, but I guess I'm just recoil sensitive. After a dozen rounds downrange, I just don't feel like shooting any more. This is also true for 30-06 and 30-30 rifles. I would like to shoot more paper at longer ranges, but obviously this just isn't any fun 12rds at a time.

Considered getting a lighter caliber such as a .243, because I hear they are light weight and soft shooters. But then I got the opportunity to fire a .308 AR. Now I'm looking at a LaRue PredatAR 7.62 w/ 18" barrel. Although it will be a pound and a half more than my .270, I think it will carry just fine. I shoot 3-gun from time to time and lug around my 10lb AR15 all day fairly comfortably.

I'm a little torn on barrel length, but think I'm leaning toward the 18" for the extra few fps. I can't get solid numbers (how much weight added, or how much more velocity), but i'm thinking it's a good compromise.

For glass, I'm looking at the US Optics 1.8-10. It seems to be a killer scope, and meets the needs of everything I hope to do. At 1.8x, I can shoot 3-gun fairly quick, and my understanding is 10x is good for hitting steel out to 1k.

Seems like this will do everything I want a rifle to do. Of course, its $5k price tag with everything is still quite hard to swallow, because it's probably more than I can sell the entire contents of my safe for right now :/ But even though it's a bit of a compromise, I feel like it will be a better hunting gun (for what I do) and a better paper punching gun than any rifle I currently own. Plus, I can use it for 3-gun and sniper type competitions, and it should out shoot my cheap AR15.

Thoughts?
 
If a 30-30 is too much, a 243 will not be any better. I'd stick with a 223. However, if you have to go out to 1000 yards, you will probably be very disappointed with the trajectory and the wind's ability to move the bullet. But 1000 yards isn't for everybody.
 
To be honest, it's been a long tome since I've shot the 30-30. And any time I've shot it was standing, offhand, which doesn't seem to be as bad as any position I've tried from a bench. I can go through box after box in my 12ga pump without a problem, so go figure. All I know is my shooting suffers due to my anticipation of recoil. May be a technique problem, in fact.
 
PredatARs are great rifles. I haven't used a USO 1.8-10 but the USO line is known to be pretty heavy. Also there have been several reports out that show a good 175grn SMK load to be supersonic out to 1k yards with a 16 inch barrel.
 
Sounds like A great gun. Recoil from A 30-30 to much?
Click to expand...

On paper a 30-30 does not recoil much, but the horrible stock designs of lever action rifles makes it feel much worse than it is. A 308 class cartridge in a modern stock design will feel like it has much less recoil.

Your choice wouldn't be mine, but your uses are different. I'd buy either a lightweight 6 lb or so AR and set it up with both irons and a low powered 1-5 or 2-7 scope in QD mounts. In fact that is exactly what I use. A bolt acton carbine in 308 would be another option. Something very similar to the scout rifles, but with the scope mounted conventionally.
 
I had a PredatAR and enjoyed the rifle. Recently I upgraded to a 17s and WOW! That is a piece of gun! It feel like Im shooting a 5.56. If you can save your money a bit more I would definitely recommend that route. Either way best of luck and have fun
-Jsnaps
 
Get a Handirifle or a Thompson Center, where you can change out the barrel, then you have your 'do it all' rifle

Or go buy a drilling
 
Certainly if you don't mind the weight and recoil of a .308 AR10 then that's about as close to do-all as I can imagine.

If not, check out an AR15 (or Mini 14 if you can find one) in 6.8SPC. It is said to give decent performance on deer and has very light recoil. I have the Mini and can attest that it is gentle on the shoulder, but I haven't shot any deer with it yet. I imagine the 6.5 Grendel is probably about the same also.
 
That 308 AR will recoil similar to a 243 bolt gun. IMO a 308 AR is pretty ideal for an allaround gun if you could only have 1 rifle. AR accuracy is phenominal with the right ammo. Get it and don't look back.

The ARs can be pretty light as well, depending on bbl length etc. 20" is all you'd ever need and 16" will cover most situations.
 
Finding the true answer to your question will require a lengthy investigation involving the purchase and testing of many rifles. Enjoy the trip. :)
 
Have you considered the new ArmaLite AR10A4? I was keen on the PredARter.
Until I spent some time researching further. I like the three Vendor magazine selection and wanted to come in under $2500 with open sights, glass, mags and a couple hundred rounds. I'm there except the scope. Apparently Nikon is doing for the 308 what they did for the 223. I'm not interested in 1000 yards but I am interested in 500 to 750 so the 16 inch barrel is alright.
7.75lbs, limited lifetime warranty, USA manufactured.
 
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You're post is quite confusing. You mention that you want a do all rifle. If you have a Model 700 in .270, you pretty much have it right there. You mention your sensitivity to recoil, well there's a few things you can do to make that .270 you own the gun you want. 1) You can look at getting a recoil pad. 2) You could look at installing a muzzle brake on the barrel. 3) You could look at using reduced recoil ammunition...it doesn't change point of impact out to 200 yards from your standard ammunition. I had my 12 year old son shoot my .270 with reduced recoil ammunition and it basically shot like my uncle's .243. He ended up dropping a whitetail buck at over 200 yards with one shot right through the heart. He used it this last year ...he's now 15....and he shot a very nice 10 point buck with it. Don't sell your .270 short it's capable of shooting "softer" with a couple of the changes I mentioned. I would only recommend the muzzle break as a last option as it does increase the noise a quite a bit. For my son's first year we put on a limbsaver buttpad and used the reduced recoil ammo and he didn't want to stop shooting it. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
"Do all" has yet to be narrowed down to what you want to do. And the process then makes it less than an all around rife.

One aspect so far is that it's a manual. And the history of firearms shows that shooters needing more capability often choose a semi auto for that job. Another aspect is that over time, those same shooters have been reducing their power levels to actually match their desired results at the ranges they shoot. In a lot of cases it's carrying 1000 foot pounds out to about 350m, and you don't need as big a cartridge to do that as tradition dictates.

Since you have to know what the longest range is that you might shoot, and how much power needs to be delivered at that range, define that first. THEN all the compromises that affect the style and operation of the gun are traded off. If even one diminishes it's range and power, it means it wasn't as important, and should have been adjusted accordingly up front. It can make a difference in the end result.

With that question settled, you then match what cartridge delivers the results you want, what barrel, what kind of action, how you furnish it, what optic, etc. So, if your "do all" gun becomes a bolt or lever, fine. But not defining it with specific numbers means MY do all gun could be quite different - a 16" AR 15 in 6.8SPC.

What then results is an interesting discussion of why it could be better or worse, but it does result in defining "Do All" in more concrete terms, and how they are prioritized. And no, you can't do into too much detail - getting the priorities weighed and set down in descending order has a great deal of influence.

Take just one aspect independent of cartridge - what action? Do you need a rapid followup shot? If hunting in whitetail country, that can be a high priority, a deer that jumps hearing the sound of the safety can be crippled, and hunters ethically hunting would prefer to shoot again. Which action helps more, a manual that forces you to lose your sight picture, take your hand off the trigger, cycle the action, and then reacquire the trigger and sights on a moving target, or one that lets you track and fire less than a second later?

That speculative scenario may never happen to some, but that is the point - and things like that and many others define "Do All." It does take compromise to make that gun, and not all of them are as effective as common knowledge makes them out.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
First of all, I don't mean to sell my 270 short. One reason I don't like hunting with it (and surely many will disagree with this line of thought) is it has a fair amount of sentimental value, and I hate dragging it through brush, banging it on deer blind ladders, knocking it around inside a blind etc. My AR15 w/ 2pt sling is SO much more comfortable to carry, and looks better with character marks, but I'd rather not hunt with .223.

To be a little more specific, here's a list of my immediate uses:
Hunting whitetail from 70 out to 250yds (not likely walking more than a couple miles in the process)
Steel in 3gun from 80 to 500yds
Paper punching out to 300yds (longest public range locally)
Plinking @ 100ish

I romance the idea of shooting paper at longer ranges and ringing steel out to the 1k mark, but it's hard to say how realistic that really is. I may also have the confidence to take longer shots hunting in the future, but right now I limit myself to 250.

I prefer the AR platform over an FAL, but really just because it's what I'm used to. I should probably give more thought to the AR15 based larger calibers, but the .308 seems very versatile, and dare i say, "ubiquitous".
 
I think you're on the right track as far as a semi-auto 308 for a "do all" rifle. That's what I ended up with. Mine's a POF P-308 with 16.5" barrel, if POF had made it with an 18" barrel that's what I would have picked. Believe it or not, with a muzzle brake the recoil is very comparable to a 223. I've got lots of rifles for different things, all different calibers and they're all better at their one thing than the POF, but the P-308 could replace them all if I needed it to.

The Larue is nice, as are just about all of them, there are plenty of other to look at. If I'd give you any advice it would be to stay with one that takes DPMS pattern magazines, like the Magpul magazines. I think your choice of optic is appropriate for the application. Mine has a set of Troy folding sights and a Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40 in a QD mount. I take it hunting for deer and hogs, precision target shooting out to 500 yards, and I also run it in tactical (run and gun, similar to 3 gun but minus shotguns) league competition. Even running my 308 against a field of 15 other shooters who are all running AR15's I'm still in 1st place, so the larger caliber isn't much of a handicap.

Enjoy, and if you find the recoil to be too much buy a good brake. Just remember to buy a rifle with threaded muzzle to start with. Or do like I did and buy a suppressor with a brake mount, recoil AND noise reduction.
 
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I'd seriously consider getting a 6.8 SPC or .300 BLK upper for your existing AR.

I've shot a .308 POF, and it was very, very nice, accurate, lovely, etc. But I think I'd rather pack around a stubby little 6.8 AR like my buddy has, and has been rolling critters all over the place with, if I were inclined to hunt with an AR.

Then, when you 3gun or target shoot, put your 5.56 upper back on. Or build job-specific uppers for each game you play.

Just thinking here. That Larue sure is a nice rifle, but there are other options that will get you where you want to go. Including a Grendel upper, if you are serious about long range.
 
sixgunner455 said:
I'd seriously consider getting a 6.8 SPC or .300 BLK upper for your existing AR.

I've shot a .308 POF, and it was very, very nice, accurate, lovely, etc. But I think I'd rather pack around a stubby little 6.8 AR like my buddy has
Click to expand...

As someone who not only owns the POF I mentioned in my previous post but also one who owns a 10" 300 Blackout SBR and a 5.56 upper to go with, I would say this is good advice to consider as well. My shorty is much easier to lug around on long hiking stalks, it almost feels like a toy. However, a 500 yard target rifle it is not, I have no experience with a 6.8 SPC, but I wouldn't think it could best a 308 past 200 yards either judging by the ballistic coefficients on 270 cal bullets either and like it or not the 6.8 costs more to shoot than a 308 whereas the 300 BLK is marginally cheaper. You did say you didn't really have access to a range of more than 300 yards, so you'll have to figure out whether you want the lighter weight and give up some range. A 16" 5.56 or 223 can do 500 yards no problem, but I wouldn't try for game with it past 200 yards unless you're into tracking(speaking from experience), and is cheapest of them all to shoot with a plethora of ammo available. 223 is about as easy to handload for as a 308, which is to say it's super easy to find good load data for and is compatible with a relatively large range of powders.
 
I don't know. I don't think that I would call a 12lb pig of a rifle a "do all" rifle.

It sounds to me like you need two rifles. If that .270 that you have has sentimental value, then I'd suggest getting into some sort of inexpensive hunter from Remington, Savage, etc; and get something for shooting at the range.

If you're set on the .308 AR, then have at it; but by the time you scope it, it gets pretty heavy and bulky. As far as the scope goes, the .308 can reach out pretty good. I think I'd be looking at something in the 3-15X range of magnification.

If you run across something that is so close that 3X is too much, you can draw your handgun; and 15X is enough to get pretty far out for tactical type shooting.
 
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