They are very good. Mine in .308 does an outstanding job. I just noticed recently that RCBS has gotten in the FL Bushing style sizer game. I would like to try one of them as well. Both companies make great stuff.
Want to start reloading MATCH GRADE .223. Advice please!
- Thread starter Lr_athlete32
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Sunray
Member
Other than bullets(and barrel quality), reloading match grade ammo is more about meticulous loading techniques than the tools. A Lee Classic(the one with the plastic mallet) will do. However, so will any of the Beginner's kits. You don't need special dies or measuring tools or gauges or any of that stuff.
You will need a good scale. Preferably digital for ease of reading. Really good match ammo is not loaded with a powder thrower. Every charge is weighed.
Do not forget that you will require a solid work bench too. Absolutely no particle board/OSB tops. They break. Mind you, if space is an issue, a Black and Decker Workmate works well.
For an AR(and any other semi-auto), you must have a Full Length sizer die. Plus check case lengths every time and watch the OAL. Otherwise loading for a semi is the same as loading for any other rifle.
Like Rule3 says, Lapua anything just costs more. Isn't really any better. I'd suggest you stay away from Federal brass, but only because it's known for being softer than other brands and doesn't last as long for that reason. Do not buy anything in bulk until you have worked up a load either.
A 55g Frangible, from any maker, is not a match grade bullet.
You will need a good scale. Preferably digital for ease of reading. Really good match ammo is not loaded with a powder thrower. Every charge is weighed.
Do not forget that you will require a solid work bench too. Absolutely no particle board/OSB tops. They break. Mind you, if space is an issue, a Black and Decker Workmate works well.
For an AR(and any other semi-auto), you must have a Full Length sizer die. Plus check case lengths every time and watch the OAL. Otherwise loading for a semi is the same as loading for any other rifle.
Like Rule3 says, Lapua anything just costs more. Isn't really any better. I'd suggest you stay away from Federal brass, but only because it's known for being softer than other brands and doesn't last as long for that reason. Do not buy anything in bulk until you have worked up a load either.
A 55g Frangible, from any maker, is not a match grade bullet.
Lr_athlete32
Member
Atblis, when you say "better metering", does this apply to both single and progressive presses? For consistency, I will probably be measuring out the powder on a scale, so does metering really matter?
Sunray
Member
Sometimes, but rarely. The press itself has nothing to do with it. Some extruded powders get stuck in powder throwers though. You'll be putting the last wee bit into the scale's pan with a trickler anyway.
This isn't the only game, just a picture so you know what I'm talking about.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/169955/rcbs-powder-trickler-2
This isn't the only game, just a picture so you know what I'm talking about.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/169955/rcbs-powder-trickler-2
atblis
Member
If a powder meters well enough, there's little to no benefit weighing each charge especially at the ranges you plan on shooting. Part of reloading is figuring out what gives you the maximum benefit for your time. In this case, weighing every single powder charge is a wasted effort IMO.
jwrowland77
Member
atblis
Member
We're not talking 1000 yard benchrest here.
Jim Watson
Member
I agree with Leon.
You may be fortunate in your choice of factory loads and may well be getting everything that carbine has to offer.
Think about it, the claims of stupendous accuracy you read about on the internet get posted because they are unusual.
You may be fortunate in your choice of factory loads and may well be getting everything that carbine has to offer.
Think about it, the claims of stupendous accuracy you read about on the internet get posted because they are unusual.
rskent
Member
To a point. I'm pretty sure I can make better, more consistent ammo using my Foster competition dies than I could with a standard Lee set.
But you do make a fair point about loading technique being important. I still use a set of dedicated, updated lee presses for my match ammo.
Every time I load I check my measurements. The are always on target. I check anyways.
The RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Kit is a GREAT place to start. You get most of what you need with this kit, and the Single Stage Press eliminates the slop inherent in Progressives.
You don't need to go crazy and spend tons of money to get very good accuracy. Here are some tips that will help and where to spend the money...
Get a good Caliper like a Mitoyo, a set of Hornady Bullet Comparators to measure the bullet seating off the OGIVE NOT THE TIP. Experiment with loading .020 to .030 off the lands in your barrel, there are Youtube Videos that explain this.
The LE Wilson Case Trimmer, Cartridge Gauge, and Micrometer Seating Die will get you the consistency you will need. These are benchrest quality tools and money well spent.
Crimp your bullets in a separate operation after you seat them. You need to crimp them for an autoloader.
Consistency is key no matter what components or tools you use. Measure your bullets OFF THE OGIVE and sort them by size. This will make seating very accurate.
I don't see any need to go crazy with die sets...save money and buy a Lee set and spend the money where it counts on the LE Wilson Bullet Seater. Btw, the Lee Collet Crimp Die you get in the set is one of the best ideas in the business.
Don't bother with neck sizing...full length sizing, or full length sizing with a bump die will get you the accuracy and case longevity you will need. Reliable functioning too...
Hope this helps...
You don't need to go crazy and spend tons of money to get very good accuracy. Here are some tips that will help and where to spend the money...
Get a good Caliper like a Mitoyo, a set of Hornady Bullet Comparators to measure the bullet seating off the OGIVE NOT THE TIP. Experiment with loading .020 to .030 off the lands in your barrel, there are Youtube Videos that explain this.
The LE Wilson Case Trimmer, Cartridge Gauge, and Micrometer Seating Die will get you the consistency you will need. These are benchrest quality tools and money well spent.
Crimp your bullets in a separate operation after you seat them. You need to crimp them for an autoloader.
Consistency is key no matter what components or tools you use. Measure your bullets OFF THE OGIVE and sort them by size. This will make seating very accurate.
I don't see any need to go crazy with die sets...save money and buy a Lee set and spend the money where it counts on the LE Wilson Bullet Seater. Btw, the Lee Collet Crimp Die you get in the set is one of the best ideas in the business.
Don't bother with neck sizing...full length sizing, or full length sizing with a bump die will get you the accuracy and case longevity you will need. Reliable functioning too...
Hope this helps...
atblis
Member
Actually, you do not need to crimp for an AR15 especially if you're after the utmost accuracy.
Atblis, I see your point on crimping, but have to disagree... an AR15, being an autoloader, is hard on bullets. If a bullet gets set back in the case, you are looking at the potential of a very dangerous overpressure situation that could blow up your gun and endanger the shooter.
For a Bolt Gun shooting off a bench, I would agree with you.
For a Bolt Gun shooting off a bench, I would agree with you.
sirgilligan
Member
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I emailed Sierra bullets and told them about my rifle and a match I want to shoot and they recommended the bullet and powder charge to consider. I haven't had a chance to try their load yet, but I was very pleased they responded so quickly.
atblis
Member
Except that thousands and thousands of AR15 shooters fire untold number of uncrimped rounds. It is not an issue on the AR15. That thing about pressure is not exactly true as well. I'd suggest searching and reading some. Pressure can actually be reduced with a shorter OAL.
Hi Atblis, you have a point on OAL. Overpressure can and does occur with near max loads when the bullet is pushed into the case, for lighter loads I understand what you are saying. Not sure why I would take a chance of having a problem, i.e. over pressure or under pressure, when a crimp can prevent either condition from happening.
Just checked my Speer, Lyman and Hodgdon Manuals and all say crimping is recommended for auto loading rifles, especially military auto loading rifles...so, I suppose it is ok not to crimp if you are aware of the issues that might occur with bullet set back.
I'm sure many folks don't crimp, to your point. I prefer the margin of safety crimping gives me, YMMV.
Just checked my Speer, Lyman and Hodgdon Manuals and all say crimping is recommended for auto loading rifles, especially military auto loading rifles...so, I suppose it is ok not to crimp if you are aware of the issues that might occur with bullet set back.
I'm sure many folks don't crimp, to your point. I prefer the margin of safety crimping gives me, YMMV.
Lr_athlete32
Member
Atblis is correct, too much space between the powder and back of the bullet can create high pressures when the burning powder slams into the bullet. This is why some under powered loads can cause huge pressures and the use of paper wads can decrease this effect in some loads.
rskent
Member
It's, Neither here nor there. I have tried it. It didn't make any difference on paper. So I stopped.
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