WARNING- Para-Ordnance Weapons Are Garbage! Do Not Buy Para-Ordnance

[EOTechRulesAll]

Para-Ordnance told me to keep shooting the thing and put several hundred more rounds through it... They told me that what I was experiencing would "go away" after I put more ammo through it...

I then put about 200-250 rounds through it, with not only no appreciable improvement (I managed to two full mags through it without issues though! The most yet!) but it actually got worse (never before had I had it jam FIFTY times in a row).

They told me I was just not using their product right, and their engineers decided it had a "break in" period of about 300-500+ rounds... I told them that it would not even fire three rounds in a row, let alone 500... I have put between 450-600 rounds through it, and it remains just as POS on the last string of shots as it did on the first group of shots.

 

[Old Fuff]

I get a great kick out of the way today's 1911 pistol makers have conned so buyers into believing that they (the buyer) are expected to fire their (the maker’s) product so many hundred rounds until it is broken in. Naturally the bright(?) new gun buyer is expected to pick up the ammunition bill.

During both World Wars, U.S. Government contractors turned out hundreds of thousands of 1911 and 1911A1 .45 pistols, and no “breaking in,” special lubrication, aftermarket magazines or vu-do was required to make them function reliably. During the same time period Colt’s commercial equivalent did exactly the same.

Never, ever – did I buy or assemble a pistol that needed to be broken in. They worked fine when they came out of the box, or when I got finished. And I usually didn’t bother to field strip and wipe off the packing oil or grease. If the bore was clear it was good to go.

Of course a lot of the guns they’re making today don’t work. They’re too tight in the wrong places, and assembled from parts purchased from vendors at the lowest possible price-point. Sometimes they aren’t even function fired before they are shipped. Yet willing buyers keep storming local retailers with money in one hand, and plastic in the other.

This forum collects more complaints about non-functioning 1911 style pistols then all other makes combined. You’d think that someone would wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Lonestar49]

It's OVER

...

She's done (unfaithful to the core) and ya best cut and run, as you'll never trust her, her sister, her sisters sister.. ever.

Move on, new, different make and model gun time..

And if ya do go for another 3" 45, get one with a full extended beaver tail.

And if ya want a for sure thing, cost a lot less in ammo, I can attest to Springfield Armory's 3" 1911 EMP 9mm, single stack mags that hold 9+1 and ya get 3 mags, real Night Sights, coco bolo wood grips, and they're tack drivers, and accurate, reliable, dependable, right out of the box..

Mine has 900 flawless rounds, with 100 of JHP.. sweet shooters, and cost about 100 - 200 bucks more than you spent..


Ls

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I am a militia member, I am a respected bible student in some conservative circles, and I am going to see that Para-Ordnance is never able to sell so much as a baseball cap with their name on it, anywhere to anybody that has any respect or gives any amount of consideration to what I say on small arms.



GMC axed their contract with General Electric since TWO headlight bulbs out of FIVE MILLION were dead on arrival... We are talking about bulbs that cost a few dollars to produce...

Para-Ordnance should be able to produce $900 dollar pistols so that their failure rate is ZERO or near ZERO...

Total Quality Management... Learn it and stay in the game, or it's just... GAME OVER MAN!

 

[SuperNaut]

1-failure-clear
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change or load mag

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change or load mag

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change or load mag

25-failure-clear
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change or load mag

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change or load mag

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change or load mag

49-failure-clear
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(throw gun at target)

You have the patience and persistence of near supernatural capacity.

Para-Ordnance told me to keep shooting the thing and put several hundred more rounds through it... They told me that what I was experiencing would "go away" after I put more ammo through it...

I then put about 200-250 rounds through it, with not only no appreciable improvement (I managed to two full mags through it without issues though! The most yet!) but it actually got worse (never before had I had it jam FIFTY times in a row).

They told me I was just not using their product right, and their engineers decided it had a "break in" period of about 300-500+ rounds... I told them that it would not even fire three rounds in a row, let alone 500... I have put between 450-600 rounds through it, and it remains just as POS on the last string of shots as it did on the first group of shots.

Was this the first go round or the second?

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I'm just going to say screw it all, and throw down the money to get an HK P7-M13 and then maybe an HK MP5-KPDW if I ever feel like lugging around a Class III weapon for self-defense (not that it would be politically correct to use such a thing for self-defense, but maybe for vehicle "car gun" purposes)...

 

[RancidSumo]

Ill buy it off you. Name your price.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I have shot the firearm at least three times. The first time was at an indoor range, then I shipped it back to them, then I got it back and took it to an outdoor range (about 15 degrees this day, so I was not out for long), where I was shooting rifles and decided to just shoot this to see how it worked. It was mostly hit/miss (mostly miss).

Today I shot it again at an indoor range, and it really was FUBAR...

Yes, I know, about the patience, but I had paid for an hour at the range and I still had 30 minutes left, so I decided to use them... Each shot required me to drop the mag, at which time a live round that had been forced forward (but had nowhere to go since the empty did not eject) would fall out, and the slide would continue forward... Then I had to eject the spent casing, and re-insert the magazine, then I had to work the slide again to chamber a new round... Then I could fire, which I did... Then I had to repeat the process all over again... I did this FIFTY times...

I had two factory mags and I went through each magazine and then reloaded each magazine and did this all again... I also had a few odd-ball rounds that I added in from time to time since I had some mags near their last few rounds, and I stuck some more into them...

At least FIFTY rounds...

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Rancid Sumo, are you kidding me?

I would sell you this pistol along with an excellent galco leather belt concealment holster, and the two magazines for $1,000 dollars... The factory plastic case, manual, magazines, everything that came with it.

If you want it (at that price), along with all the stuff, it is yours...

I'll even clean the damn thing and lube it before I send it to you.

 

[RH45]

You were lucky they reimbursed you for your shipping!
They not only didn't reimburse my shipping, they charged me return shipping and for the parts they replaced, but, they didn't replace the parts needed, and guess what? Mine didn't run when it came back either. I paid a competent gunsmith to take care of it. The same gunsmith that told me I should send it in for warranty.

 

[Mad Magyar]

the 3" 45's are very unforgiving when it comes to an improper 2 hand grip, as in limp wristing, and will talk to you with jams, because of an improper grip..

Especially curious about one-hand and weak-hand shots..

Where did this come from & who says so? Kind of persistent about blaming the "ol-limp-wrist" excuse and being ignored. Rightly so....This guy acquires a bad pistol and goes berserk and can we blame him? Para isn't immune to building a bad pistol now & then.
Give this guy some slack....

 

[SuperNaut]

One's that work go for less. I'll give ya $400 for your POS.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Yes, it was a long time ago (c. 1998 or '99), but a P12-45 I had was absolutely dreadful, the problems starting before I ever shot it (on my initial stripping/cleaning/inspection I was unable to remove the recoil spring plug per the manual), and the actual shooting was even worse. Besides the 50% failure to feed rate, it chewed a hole in my hand. I did not do something I probably should have, which was to give them a chance to repair it. I was thoroughly disgusted and traded it in on a Glock 30, which, although bulky and ugly, would at least shoot.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I am going to get a full refund... As I told them before, if they did not reimburse my shipping, I would see to it that everybody in my militia and everybody associated with me, affiliated with me, and affiliated/associated with my friends, knew what crap they make...

If somebody wants to buy it off me for a reasonable price (I might lower my amount, but don't expect to get a holster with it) then I would consider it...

I would never sell it for $400 dollars because if I have to, I will just issue a notice of revocation of acceptance to the merchant who sold it to me and receive a full refund (or if I have to, dispute the charges with my credit-card company and say they are refusing to issue a refund for defective merchandise).



U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES
..PART 6. BREACH, REPUDIATION AND EXCUSE


2-608. Revocation of Acceptance in Whole or in Part.
(1) The buyer may revoke his acceptance of a lot or commercial unit whose non-conformity substantially impairs its value to him if he has accepted it

(a) on the reasonable assumption that its non-conformity would be cured and it has not been seasonably cured; or
(b) without discovery of such non-conformity if his acceptance was reasonably induced either by the difficulty of discovery before acceptance or by the seller's assurances.
(2) Revocation of acceptance must occur within a reasonable time after the buyer discovers or should have discovered the ground for it and before any substantial change in condition of the goods which is not caused by their own defects. It is not effective until the buyer notifies the seller of it.

(3) A buyer who so revokes has the same rights and duties with regard to the goods involved as if he had rejected them.

 

[Hoppy590]

Old Fuff

i assure you, this instance is hardly SOP of para.
mine has function fine straight out of the box. didnt even clean it between buying it (5pm) and shooting it (11am) and it ate up 150 rounds in that one session alone. standard para mags ( 10rounders then) and 14 rounders now all worked fine, albeit pricey.

if para did suggest a "break in" period im sure its to try and separate the loose nunts behind the gun from any loose nuts in the gun.

everyone i have ever met, and can confirm owns a para, has been extremely happy with them. and even here int he land of Smith and Wesson. i see para's selling like hotcakes. having extensively shot SW1911's and my para DOUBLE stack, AT the smith and wesson indoor range. i have no problems with para guns that are not present in other brands of 1911's. SW specificly.

things to remember
its a chunk of metal, not a baby chicken. grab it firm and keep control.
its a slide stop, not a slide release
FMJ = reliable
other bullet styles= ymmv

 

[SuperNaut]

I would never sell it for $400 dollars because if I have to, I will just issue a notice of revocation of acceptance to the merchant who sold it to me and receive a full refund (or if I have to, dispute the charges with my credit-card company and say they are refusing to issue a refund for defective merchandise).

Bummer (always looking for a deal), let us know how it goes with Para.

 

[junok]

Para Ordnance 45

I have 5 .45 pistols- a Government Model 1911A1, a Colt Systema (identical to a 1911A1), 2 Ballester Molinas (Argentine similar to a Colt, but updated) and a Taurus Millenium Pro. Every one of them shot just fine out of the box with GI magazines. The idea that an expensive pistol needs to be shot several hundred rounds before it becomes dependable is crazy.
As a matter of caution, I usually put 50 or so rounds per magazine thru a proposed carry pistol, just to be certain, but I am primarily testing the mags and getting used to the trigger.
I have yet to see one of the current crop of high priced 1911s that made any sense unless it was to be used ONLY for target work, and the user was lucky or had a good smith tune it. I would never bet my life on a target tuned weapon.
Frank

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I've held it as firm as I could, to where I felt I was going to crush it (exaggeration, but you get the idea), I've tried it one-handed, I've tried it soft grip, firm grip, any sort of grip you could imagine... I've used the slide release/catch, I've used the simple method of pulling back and letting it fly forward, it just does NOT work.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Let's put it this way... I have an M9 Beretta that I have probably shot about 2000 rounds through and it works flawlessly, and I have regularly exposed it to all sorts of nasty conditions (cold- I carry it in -20 degree temps), humidity (I keep it in my bathroom while I shower, sometimes), I've even dropped it once (well I didn't drop it, my shoulder holster came open and it fell out, I since sent the holster back and Galco repaired it, and it works fine).

 

[Old Fuff]

Hoppy590:

What set off the Old Fuff's recent rant was the following...

They told me I was just not using their product right, and their engineers decided it had a "break in" period of about 300-500+ rounds...

These days .45 ammunition isn't exactly inexpensive, and it would seem that only 1911 platform makers have the gall to tell a customer that it is their responsibility to burn up 300 to 500 rounds to (maybe) get the product to work. This attitude in not limited to Para-Ordnance of course.


But regardless, people still keep buying these guns.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

It cost me $68 dollars to buy 200 rounds of FMJ Winchester... So they basically said I should spend about $170 dollars on the off-chance that doing so would make their pistol work...

If a car won't drive ten miles, telling the owner "you need to drive it for three hundred miles before it will begin to work properly!" is ridiculous and should be criminal.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

My grandfather bought a new TV one day, and the picture tube was shot about a week into things... He told the retail store to give him a new TV or fix it... They told him to deal with the manufacturer, who told him to deal with the retail store, etc...

After about three weeks of run-around crap, he told the store "if you do not give me my money back I am going to come down to your store and throw the damn thing through your front window... I don't care if I spend a week in jail over it, everybody is going to hear about it and I will make it known just why it happened and how crappy your service is..." -Note, he was NOT kidding either-

They immediately gave him a full refund...

 

[Seven For Sure]

www.glock.com

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I have a Glock 17 and I am impressed with the realiability but I do not care for the polymer nature of the weapon which gives it too little weight in the back and thus affects how I handle it. I am sure if I wanted to spend months trying to improve my accuracy with it I could, but I find I am deadly accurate with my M9 Beretta, and only perhaps B-/B with the Glock 17, whereas I am about A-/A with the M9.

My dad swears by the Glock but I swear by my M9 Beretta and my HK P7/PSP. I now want to get an HK P7-M13.

 

[Lonestar49]

Check the box's of ammo out

Quote: It cost me $68 dollars to buy 200 rounds of FMJ Winchester...
--------------
...

Umm, check the box and see where the ammo was made, Made in East Alton, IL USA or made Made in CZECH REPUBLIC..

I got several boxes (and it was little less expensive, which I thought was good) of Winchester wb of 50, per box and had one bullet that kept jamming on the first feed, or once it came up from the mag.. over and over, twice.

I then picked it up and sure enough, the casing was cracked at the lip..

Not to mention that at distance-shots that day were nothing to brag about, but it seemed strange that she, or I, wasn't hitting COM like most every other time.. It was the ammo IMO, that my gun clerk bud pointed out the next time I bought some more.. He apologized that the other clerk, who really doesn't know me, did not point that out. The difference per box of USA ammo was a little over a dollar more a box difference, but the quality and accuracy is huge.. fyi

Check the bottom of your box's of ammo, hopefully you got ammo made in:

Made in Illinonis USA, not Made in CZECH REPUBLIC


Ls