Was there ever a 1903 Springfield Carbine?

[Fanky]

I'm just curious if I stumbled across an oddity or not at my trip to the LGS today. I was in to make a final payment on my Colt Defender, and was doing a little browsing around. I found what appears to be a 1903 Springfield Carbine. It's a Rock Island in the 23,000 serial number range. I didn't take any pictures, but it doesn't look anything like a Bubba job. Roughly an 18-20" barrel, and the forend looks factory, identical to a full size rifle, just shortened up. I know it would more than likely not be safe to fire full power loads in after doing some research on the heat treating issues early on, but would it be something worth picking up as an investment and running some reduced loads through?

 

[Float Pilot]

NO...... Something fishy..... slow down.......

There was a 1903 Springfield "BushMaster"

During 1942 the 158th Infantry of the Oklahoma National Guard were stationed in the Canal Zone of Panama with this carbine style of 03. The mods were done by the ordnance shops in Panama, & did not have Parkerizing capability, so all the barrels were blued after being cut down to 18 inches. (Reference was from 'The Springfield 1903 Rifles' by Lt. Col. William S Brophy)

BUT... Most were converted back to the rifle configuration since it was a unit bootleg operation. So I would be very careful about one that you find for sale...They are easy to fake. I made one back when I was in high-school and a 1903 cost $35.

 

[rcmodel]

Ahh!
A GinUwine Tanker 03 Springfield then!!

No such thing.

Someboy Bubba'd it, sometime, somewhere.

rc

 

[1858remington]

You cant believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln

 

[Fanky]

I used to be a very impulsive gun buyer, but I've learned to take a step back and do some digging when something doesn't add up. I hopped on my phone at the store and came across the BushMaster information, threw that possibility our right away as the finish was consistent on the receiver and barrel. If this is a Bubba job, it was a very well-done one. I don't think I'm going to stick my neck out on a potential $450 mistake unless some new evidence turns up.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

You cant believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln

While Lincoln is often credited with this, he was actually para-phrasing from a speech by JFK...

As far as how the described rifle "looks" - you can't rely too much on that. I had a retired Army match armorer build me a rockin' "tanker" Garand before everyone was doing it and was so happy with it that I had a faux-Bushmaster made as well with new cartouches and the works. Happy fun gun that was but it's my brother's now since I bought an FR-8 way back when.

 

[wlewisiii]

Yeah, it's bubba's but damn if it doesn't sound like the only '03 Mauser I'd be interested in... (grinning, ducking & running like a bad outta down there...)

 

[Baba Louie]

Float Pilot,

That is a rockin little rifle you made/altered. High School??? Some people's kids... I tell you. Nice.

 

[Pete D.]

........... I know it would more than likely not be safe to fire full power loads in after doing some research on the heat treating issues early on, but would it be something worth picking up as an investment and running some reduced loads through?

While I am sympathetic to wanting to use "low numbered" 1903s, the recommendation is that they not be fired at all.
Pete

 

[kBob]

Actually there was at least one carbine '03 with front band and all.

It appears in "Hatcher's Notebook" but it was in .45ACP. There is even a picture of a target from a test firing.

I always thought that would be a neat thing to do to one of the little Spanish 7mm full stocked M95 carbines. A friend had one of the originals with chamber issues that would have been the perfect starting place but his estate sold it out from under me. This was a buddy gun that I had loaned the original purchase price on on the agreement that I had first dibs at the original price if he ever wanted to sell it. Naturally no such info appeared in the non existant will.....sorry, sore point with his family.

Nice Bushmaster Repro, Floatplane. Good work. Did you have a smokey the bear campaign hat to go with it like the unit wore?

-kBob

 

[bannockburn]

In "Guns of the World-Petersen Publishing 1972", there is a photograph of a Springfield Armory Model 1901 Experimental Carbine that was a combination of a Krag carbine and a Model 1903. It was made in 1902 and was serial number 29.

 

[BigG]

I thought the 03 was the one where there was only one size. The older Krag had both rifle and carbine versions.

 

[Reloadron]

There was a time when both O3 and O3A3 rifles were going out through the then DCM program. Many of those rifles, by the thousands were "sporterized" in a dozen different ways. Sure would be nice to see a few good pictures of this puppy.

Ron

 

[rcmodel]

and running some reduced loads through?

No such thing in a low number gun.

Many of the early blow-ups were with indoor gallery loads the military used to train with.

rc

 

[kBob]

Those gallery loads were the idea behind the Albert's swaged 150 grain dryfilm lubed SWC type .308 bullet. Still amazes me that no one makes a swaged bullet like that for relatively low velocity loads.

And yes to the other guy the '03 was a compromise between the traditional long rifles and short carbines that came before it as a one size fits all.

-kBob

 

[shotgunjoel]

I thought the 03 was the one where there was only one size. The older Krag had both rifle and carbine versions.

Yep. The 1903 was built in an intermediate size between what was considered a rifle for the infantry and a carbine for the cavalry. From wikipedia "While the Krag had been issued in both a long rifle and carbine, the Springfield was issued only as a short 24 in. barrel rifle in keeping with current trends in Switzerland and Great Britain to eliminate the need for both long rifles and carbines."

 

[Fanky]

I can see about taking some pictures of it when I go in tomorrow for the re-check on my handgun.

 

[Float Pilot]

The older Krag had both rifle and carbine versions.

Actually there was a third version of the Krag. The Philippine Constabulary Rifle.

A short barrel like a true carbine, but a regular type of stock that had been shortened to work with the 20.5 inch barrel.

Photo not mine......

 

[bannockburn]

I have a Model 1896 Krag rifle and would love to get a Krag carbine some day to go with it. Really like the look of that Philippine Constabulary carbine.

 

[carbine85]

The question is how much does he want for it. It might be worth restoring.

 

[tahunua001]

I would recommend against it. the bushmasters were never a factory offering to begin with so regardless of whether they are original or copycat, they are all still modified and depreciate the same. 450 for a semi sportered springfield in decent condition is about going rate. I wouldn't put much stock in any of the claims that they are unsafe to fire. if it has survived the last 100 years and deployment in 2 major conflicts then I am fairly sure the reciever has gotten the necessary stress testing to prove it safe to fire. I have a pre 800G springfield and I've fired over 100 rounds of M2 ball, 5 rounds of black tip and 20 rounds of tracer out of it... I'm not dead and she's still almost as beautiful as the day she was made.

 

[Fanky]

I snagged a few pictures of it today. Didn't get a full rifle picture, the store owner was a little hesitant, and I understand, but he let me get some detail pictures of the muzzle end. I'm still considering picking it up, just a matter of what has to go to fund it.

 

[tahunua001]

ok I might be going nuts but that looks like an enfield front sight to me, it does not resemble the ones on either my springfield or my remington. the handguard looks like two pieces of mismatched wood which makes me think that they chopped the handguard at the upper stock band and used a front section from an enfield hndguard. other than that the bayonet lug looks correct and they did a decent job of making a straight cut but I think that this is a nicer example of of a bubba gun.