Is this 1903 safe to shoot?

[Grim Peeper]

I just picked up a Rock Island Arsenal 1903 from 1919. SA barrel with flaming bomb logo. Pretty cool! The stock has been sporterized but done well. My question is pertaining to the fact that I’ve heard that low serial # RIA receivers weren’t heat treated as well and like to blow up sometimes. However it is 99 years old so my logic is that it probably would have blown up by now if it was going to. If it was your rifle would you hesitate to fire it?

 

[LoonWulf]

View attachment 802843 View attachment 802844 I just picked up a Rock Island Arsenal 1903 from 1919. SA barrel with flaming bomb logo. Pretty cool! The stock has been sporterized but done well. My question is pertaining to the fact that I’ve heard that low serial # RIA receivers weren’t heat treated as well and like to blow up sometimes. However it is 99 years old so my logic is that it probably would have blown up by now if it was going to. If it was your rifle would you hesitate to fire it?

I have a buddy who uses that exact logic on his 1903.

Personally, Id be leery of shooting any modern ammo thru it. Stick with soft handloads, light cast loads would probably be my choice we're I going to fire it.

The 1903s tended to fail spectacularly when they went, your almost guaranteed to get injured, and there are too many cheap sporters available to risk blowing yourself up at this point.
So again if you really want to shoot it, do so very carefully.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

The earlier 03's were made of plain old carbon steel and heat treatment was not always spot on. I would not shoot modern ammo in it at all like LoonWulf stated. I saw the remains of an 03 that blew up and it was as ugly as it gets.

 

[shooter1niner]

Very low serial #, I MIGHT shoot very mild hand loads, but probably not. Unfortunately you have no idea what has been fired before you. It could be one shot away from failure.

Might be fun to restore it back to original configuration and hang it on a wall. They do sell for crazy money if original.

 

[Grim Peeper]

This kinda a bummer I got it for 250 and was hoping to use it as a shooter. Maybe I’ll invest in a goalie mask and arm chaps.

 

[bannockburn]

Grim Peeper

According to Frank de Haas in his book, "Bolt Action Rifles" Rock Island Arsenal did not begin to use the double heat treatment on their receivers until serial number 285,507 making your rifle a low numbered gun. What happens is that with the single heat treated receivers they could have a tendency to be very hard and brittle and when they fail they usually break apart and shatter. Rifles were originally tested with proof loads at 70,000 PSI and it was noted that very few of the low numbered guns failed. Even so Mr. de Haas noted that some gunsmiths recommended keeping the maximum level at around 50,000 PSI or rechambering the rifle to handle factory ammo like .257 Roberts (54,000 PSI), or 7x57mm. Mauser (51,000 PSI).

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I believe that receiver was built in 1906 and the barrel in 1919.

 

[Slamfire]

I have written extensively on the risks of low number 03's. You cannot tell by looking at it, or any non destructive means, whether the material of the receiver is high quality or garbage, whether the heat treatment was correct or not. This is a pre vacuum tube era weapon, made in a factory that only used temperature gages with sight springs, and did not have incoming material inspection.

Small numbers of reports of low number blow ups keep on appearing on the web. You ought to read up on the risks of these old things, or you might be posting a self portrait, after the blow up.



Related to the topic:

Rattling in my model 1903

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/rattling-in-my-model-1903.822956/#post-10586467

Somewhat related:

6.5 Swede Mauser and loading manuals
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/6-5-swede-mauser-and-loading-manuals.828797/

 

[Grim Peeper]

What a bummer! I think I’ll just sell it and hopefully break even. On the bright side I learned more about the platform from field stripping etc. So that was a fun experience Now at least I’ll know what to look for in an 03 and maybe also check out some K98s as well just for a good shooter.

 

[tark]

I believe the early 03s were made of the same carbon steel as the Krag....and single heat treated the same way. Stick to Krag level pressures and you should be OK......BUT!

As 351 WINCHESTER has mentioned, a low number blow-up is about as ugly as it gets. The action does an excellent imitation of a hand grenade. Why take any chance at all?

I have a low number RIA 03. It presumably served in the Great War. It was rebuilt at the San Antonio Arsenal and was re-barreled during WW2. A re-barrel requires a re-proof. Which it passed! So this low numbered gun passed a 70,000 PSI proof test not once, but twice! It was then retired to War Reserve storage, to be re-issued only in emergency situations. It is, after all a low numbered gun. Do I shoot it?

NO!!!! I'm not going to take that chance. I like my face. I don't want to take even the slightest chance of having the gun re-arrange it for me.

 

[saiga308]

This kinda a bummer I got it for 250 and was hoping to use it as a shooter. Maybe I’ll invest in a goalie mask and arm chaps.

LOL!
i put a hard hat on and held my k11 308 setback barrel over my head the first few shots

 

[saiga308]

I have a buddy who uses that exact logic on his 1903.

Personally, Id be leery of shooting any modern ammo thru it. Stick with soft handloads, light cast loads would probably be my choice we're I going to fire it.

The 1903s tended to fail spectacularly when they went, your almost guaranteed to get injured, and there are too many cheap sporters available to risk blowing yourself up at this point.
So again if you really want to shoot it, do so very carefully.

found this on the web load data thats safe for your 03 if yah want to keep it

32 grains IMR 4895
150 grain FMJBT bullet

Thart's about 70% of the recommended starting load in the Lee Manual. Plenty accurate at 100 and 200 yds., and very easy on powder, brass, and my shoulder.

btw my k11 308 hasnt blown up in my face yet 75 rounds threw it so far 168 grain bullets 42 grains of blc 2 powder

 

[LoonWulf]

found this on the web load data thats safe for your 03 if yah want to keep it

btw my k11 308 hasnt blown up in my face yet 75 rounds threw it so far 168 grain bullets 42 grains of blc 2 powder

I actually think a k11 is less likely to come apart the way a 1903 would if it did fail.

42gr of blc-2 is below hodgdons starting.

Not nearly the same.thing as touching off a full power modern factory round.

 

[saiga308]

I actually think a k11 is less likely to come apart the way a 1903 would if it did fail.

42gr of blc-2 is below hodgdons starting.

Not nearly the same.thing as touching off a full power modern factory round.

check this guys reduced load 30 06 he likes it video time 0:25
his loads are 31.8 grains of powder only i see

 

[LoonWulf]

Oh I have nothing against reduced loads. I'm just pointing out that a reduced handloads is not the same as firing a full power factory offering.

Again we're I going to shoot a 1903 of that production date I'd ONLY use reduced handloads. Most likely cast bullets.

Again if all I wanted was a shooter and with so many good safe modernbsporters in the 250-350 range tho I'd chose something else. If for no other reason than because blowing up would suck.....

 

[troy fairweather]

the thing with low # 03s are u dont know if they will blow. even if they were used for many years.

 

[saiga308]

I actually think a k11 is less likely to come a#!part the way a 1903 would if it did fail.

42gr of blc-2 is below hodgdons starting.

Not nearly the same.thing as touching off a full power modern factory round.

i dont like the less likly part in your tone of voice so ill stay at 42 grains of powder and

thats my story and am sticking to it
​

 

[saiga308]

View attachment 802856 View attachment 802843 View attachment 802844 I just picked up a Rock Island Arsenal 1903 from 1919. SA barrel with flaming bomb logo. Pretty cool! The stock has been sporterized but done well. My question is pertaining to the fact that I’ve heard that low serial # RIA receivers weren’t heat treated as well and like to blow up sometimes. However it is 99 years old so my logic is that it probably would have blown up by now if it was going to. If it was your rifle would you hesitate to fire it?

hey check this out start video time 04:00 mark
only 24 rifles rock island arms blew up

 

[JONWILL]

I have written extensively on the risks of low number 03's. You cannot tell by looking at it, or any non destructive means, whether the material of the receiver is high quality or garbage, whether the heat treatment was correct or not. This is a pre vacuum tube era weapon, made in a factory that only used temperature gages with sight springs, and did not have incoming material inspection.

Small numbers of reports of low number blow ups keep on appearing on the web. You ought to read up on the risks of these old things, or you might be posting a self portrait, after the blow up.

View attachment 802883

Related to the topic:

Rattling in my model 1903

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/rattling-in-my-model-1903.822956/#post-10586467

Somewhat related:

6.5 Swede Mauser and loading manuals
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/6-5-swede-mauser-and-loading-manuals.828797/

Wow. Read the information. Seems like even if it passes the proof load, over a period of time the metal can eventually “give”. Looked at the pictures and I could see where someone could easily be killed when the lugs go and the bolt comes straight back into the shooters face

 

[saiga308]

from 1929 to 1939 none blew up?

 

[saiga308]

Wow. Read the information. Seems like even if it passes the proof load, over a period of time the metal can eventually “give”. Looked at the pictures and I could see where someone could easily be killed when the lugs go and the bolt comes straight back into the shooters face

you can take the bolt out after 25 rounds and then fire another batch and keep checking for cracks, thats what i do my k-11 its just good prevention , the guy that blew his face up never check his bolt out i bet he would of seen some stress cracks.. if he did and why did he shoot full loads anyway the gun is a 100 years old ? and has some wear dont push it i wont shoot full loads out of my k 11 never!

 

[saiga308]

The year of manufacture for serial number 57866 is 1906.

All rifles recalled and rechambered for .30 caliber in 1906.
The improved heat treatment started at 285507.
Introduction of nickel steel started at 319921.
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php

1906‑28001‑75000
http://www.bowersweapons.com/US MODEL 1903 RIFLE SERIAL NUMBER RANGES.htm

 

[Grim Peeper]

Previous poster said that my receiver is a 1909 and serial number is 57866 which is very low. I still find it hard to believe it could be 110 years old and been through 2 world wars and it’s gonna explode in my face. However.... I like my face, nose and my teeth. Most of the pics I’ve seen of blown receivers were not fractionated but busted in half. Usually less than 3 pieces. Where are these grenade like exploded receiver pics?

 

[saiga308]

Hatcher provided the serial number and the date of failure for all 33 Springfield Armory receivers, and the same data for 22 of the 24 Rock Island receivers (see Hatcher, pp 442-447).

http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/
now check this out 1906 productions seems to be ok 1907 above were not soRock Island Receivers.

There were no receiver failures of rifles manufactured for five of those 11 years (1905-6, 1913-14, and 1917),

 

[saiga308]

Previous poster said that my receiver is a 1909 and serial number is 57866 which is very low. I still find it hard to believe it could be 110 years old and been through 2 world wars and it’s gonna explode in my face. However.... I like my face, nose and my teeth. Most of the pics I’ve seen of blown receivers were not fractionated but busted in half. Usually less than 3 pieces. Where are these grenade like exploded receiver pics?

no its a 1906,http://www.bowersweapons.com/US MODEL 1903 RIFLE SERIAL NUMBER RANGES.htm

1903‑1‑7500

1904‑7501‑16000

1905‑16001‑28000

1906‑28001‑75000

1907‑75001‑130000

1908‑130001‑165000

1909‑165001‑178000

i think the ammo is the suspect more then the recievers my self

Another important factor is the exhaustion or retirement of soft brass cartridge cases manufactured during the crisis of World War I and still being used up to 1929..