Was worried about my G36 until....

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borodin

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I had some FTE's big time about a week ago with my new G36 but then after I got rid of the Winchester White Box stuff that I bought at Wally-world....and went back to Remington UMC's it ran like a true champ. No problems whatsoever.

So I guess that means no more white box discounts for me.
 
Wow, I broke in my Glock 36 using the white box stuff & didn't have a single hiccup....at least you figured out your problem & now all's well!
 
trying to shoot up the rest of my WWB to get rid of it. I bought a bunch but I don't care for it all that much. I am to the point in my life where quality matter alot more thant quantity. If I am gonna take the cheap route I prefer S&B.

edited to add that I prefer the umc's to wwb any day.

-bevr
 
How many rounds do you have through your pistol? It may be time to clean out the striker channel...
 
200? Maybe the gun is just a little tight from the factory and the Whitebox is fairly low pressure as 9mm goes. Perhaps not enough oomph for a new gun. What kind of lube are you using? My Mini-14 jammed like a SOB when it was new, but now it runs like a champ.
 
At 200 rounds, there shouldn't be any appreciable buildup in the striker channel. That should take thousands of rounds UNLESS...

...you've been getting lube inside the slide. You should never spray anything in the firing pin hole or allow lube or solvent to drip into the hole. It can cause the bits of debris that get inside the slide to gum up and retard the movement of the striker.

http://www.topglock.com/info/info.htm
 
When shooting a semiauto pistol, you can't take the shooter out of the equation when it comes to observed functioning ...

Day in & day out, most armorers would generally agree that something like 95% of the malfunctions which occur with semiauto pistols (in normal, good condition) are eventually diagnosed to be shooter-induced in some manner or another ... followed by ammunition-related issues, and followed lastly by actual pistol-related issues.

One of our guys bought himself a G36, and brought it to our range to qualify with it as an off duty weapon. Our current range ammunition is the standard Winchester 230gr FMJ "contract" ammunition, also known as "White Box" when it comes to over-the-counter sales. The pistol functioned just fine in my hands, and the new owner's hands, for that session.

The owner later told me that he started to experience some occasional malfunctions when shooting the pistol at another range. (I have no idea what ammunition he was using elsewhere.) He said he finally took it to another L/E range where he knows someone who is also a Glock armorer. He thought it was a "problem" with the gun, and wanted it examined and corrected. The armorer told him that his G36 was poorly lubricated, namely noticeably UNDER-lubricated, and found nothing else "wrong" with the pistol.

Last I heard, the fellow is still looking to replace the G36 with a "better" pistol, and he was asking me what would be a good choice. Listening between the lines, it appears he isn't enthused about owning a pistol that requires he pay attention to its regular maintenance. Perhaps his definition of "better" is a pistol that will function properly no matter how little attention he pays to it, or how little he practices with it. If that's the case, I'm not sure what can be recommended to him that will "suit" his needs. I suggested he consider simply regularly and properly maintaining his G36, or any other pistol he may select, and spend sufficient time on the range to become accustomed to shooting it properly.

TANSTAAFL ... or, for you folks that aren't Heinlein fans ... There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

Shooting compact & subcompact pistols, with reduced slide mass & increased slide velocities, can often make it more likely that shooter-related issues may affect the proper functioning of the pistol. Of course, this is also true of ammunition-related issues ...

The other day I was shooting my CS45 at our range, and was using the 230gr FMJ "White Box" ammunition. It was cold, damp and raining. No problems at all. One of the other instructors was function testing a new Wilson CQB, and was using both the "White Box" ammmunition, as well as some Ranger RA45T ammunition. You know ... new pistol to function test, so take it out in the cold, damp, rainy weather and run a few hundred rounds of different ammunition through it to break it in, so to speak. Okay, okay, so we were taking advantage of a range staff maintenance and scenario development day to spend some time doing some fun, advanced stuff ;) ... which just coincidentally involved burning through several hundreds of rounds of ammunition ... I suspect :rolleyes: I also went through the better part of a case of ammunition with just with my issued 6906, but I digress ...

Anyhow, I decided to run some of the Ranger RA45T ammunition through my CS45, since it had been a while since I'd used that ammunition for simple range practice, although that's what I carry in the weapon. Again, no problems, but I noticed something ... The Ranger loads had noticeably more perceived recoil impulse than the 230gr FMJ. Noticeably more ...

The standard Winchester 230gr FMJ is generally listed as being loaded to velocities of approx 835fps, or thereabouts ... and the standard pressure Ranger RA45T is listed at approx 885fps. The regular Supreme SXT 230gr load is listed at 880fps and the "White Box" USA45JHP at 880fps, FYI ...

What's it mean? Well, if someone were shooting a small framed .45 pistol, AND they had any tendency to relax either their grip, or their wrist/forearm stability, while shooting ... maybe the slightly lower velocity FMJ loads MIGHT contribute to the potential for the occasional malfunction, or not, depending on the shooter. There's that shooter-related factor, again ... Not to mention what it might mean to be breaking in a "new" pistol, as well.

As denfoote just inferred :D , many folks shoot a LOT of this Winchester ammunition without any problems whatsoever. We order our training ammunition based upon what's available on the state contract, due to cost, which means we're commonly shooting either Winchester or Remington, depending on the caliber, bullet weight, etc ... We shoot a LOT of the same ammunition referred to as "White Box", like the USA9JHP2 147gr JHP ammunition, and it's always functioned fine in all the various 9mm weapons currently carried by the folks from both our agency, and other agencies for whom we occasionally provide qualification & training. It was even our service ammunition for a while, and I know of at least a couple other local agencies that issue (or issued) it for service ammunition.

It's not expensive ammunition, and it uses "old style" bullets, but it's not "bad" ammunition, either ...
 
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How many rounds do you have through your pistol? It may be time to clean out the striker channel...

Okay, now how does that relate to his FTE (Failure to extract/eject)? Hmm, it doesn't.


Maybe the gun is just a little tight from the factory and the Whitebox is fairly low pressure as 9mm goes.

That's great, and it could explain a lot of problems were he firing 9mm in his G36 ;) I have no idea about the velocity of 45ACP WW, but I think a generally true statement is that Whitebox is inconsistent second quality stuff. If you want good quality and cheap, reload. Actually, my gun shop used to sell me PMC 230gr for the smae price as these "value packs".
 
Navy joe I thought the same thing...what does the striker have to do with the ejection, but I thought I would sit back and maybe learn something from the experts. Maybe misread it to be a failure to fire?

While I will agree that most malfunctions are shooter related, such as limp wristing, I still have come across instances with other pistols and the wite box stuff. Many use it with no problems. I have not had much success.

As to the question of lube. I use Browning lube shot. I found that it sticks with the gun longer than just plain ol oil. If I have not shot in a week or so, I will field strip and lube BEFORE I shoot just to make sure, not to mention that wearing jeans will start to build up a nest of fuzz in the barrel and grip hole.
 
how does that relate to his FTE (Failure to extract/eject)? Hmm, it doesn't.

Navy joe I thought the same thing...what does the striker have to do with the ejection, but I thought I would sit back and maybe learn something from the experts. Maybe misread it to be a failure to fire?

You should have called me on that immediately...

I misread the post as "failures to fire", just as you suspected. Sorry for the rabbit trail... :(

A gummy striker channel has no effect on failures to extract.

OK, now that I understand the topic :rolleyes: my USP has 1 or 2 FTE's per box of WWB. It's never malfunctioned with any other ammunition.

None of my other 9mms have any problem with the WWB.
 
It's ok John, just having fun at your expense.

All I know about white box is everytime I see chrono results it has a ridiculous extreme spread, usually twice that of anything being tested. Everybody seems to worship the crap because it's cheap, guess they like cheap crap. I'm starting to think I'd be better off to recommend Blazer or something.
 
Well, I can't see why anyone would "worship" ammunition, let alone because it's cheap ... but a lot of folks seem to be limited in their ammunition budgets, and go for the least expensive, name-brand ammunition they can find.

Personally, I've never had any significant problems with any Blazer ammunition in recent years ...

If I had to buy my own ammunition again ;) ... and I WILL, when I retire in the next couple of years ... I'd go back to buying LESSER quantities of the BEST quality ammunition I could afford, and make every shot count when it came to training & practice. Quality over quantity, both in rounds fired downrange and skills practice and maintenance, is preferable ... for me .. to the sheer number of rounds fired downrange.

In the past, this has meant often buying Hydra-Shok, Hi-Shok, Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, Supreme SXT, Silver Tips, Hornady, and such ... although when I start paying for my ammunition again, I'll give some of the little companies like Pro Load and Black Hills a try, if they offer an advantage in price.

I don't have anything in particular, for or against, the bulk-grade "budget" ammunition marketed under the American Eagle, UMC, USA or Blazer product lines. I've shot them all, and found them predictably similar in most respects ... dirty, "less powerful" and consistent when it came to perceived recoil impulse, less "precision" when it came to brass case dimensions, etc ... and I've experienced out-of-spec cases in some of the budget Winchester Ranger (NOT T-Series), and "bad" primers in Remington, Winchester and Federal ...

Budget ammunition is budget ammunition, and the production costs have got to be cut somewhere ...

Once I've determined that various JHP/BHP ammunition functions properly in my weapons ... and this includes periodically testfiring any "improved" versions, from time to time, to make sure any new production variations or improvements won't adversely affect proper feeding & functioning in my weapons ... I'd rather shoot more expensive quality FMJ ammunition, than cheap JHP ammunition, everything else being the same.

What I won't shoot anymore is ammunition produced by Fiocchi, PMC and some other foreign "budget" ammunition. But again, that's just me ...

Also, until they perfect the technology, I won't be shooting any "clean", lead-free primer ammunition, either ...

I doubt I'll get back into reloading when I retire, but that's because there are so many other things I'd like to make time for ... but you never know. ;)
 
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