WASR-10 Problems

[Durruti]

About two months ago, a got a slightly used GP WASR-10. I've taken it out to the range a few of times and it's had nothing but problems. It has a failure about every fourth round. Sometimes it's an FTF, where the round partially loads and then gets stuck. Sometimes the spent cartridge completely fails to eject (it's still sitting in the chamber). Sometimes the spent cartridge fully ejects, the bolt closes, but fails to load a new cartridge from the magazine (this one especially baffles me).

I've tried using different magazines. I've cleaned off the cosmoline. I've cleaned and oiled it all over. The gas system doesn't appear to be canted. I'm not sure what else to do.

Today at the range one guy told me that it looks like the charging handle sometimes only retracts partway. He said I might need a lighter recoil spring. Naturally, I'm a bit reluctant to trust some random dude at the range, so I figured I'd try out the collective wisdom on THR.

Any ideas?

 

[rbernie]

Did you pull the bolt carrier/gas piston out, remove the gas tube, and clean the whole shebang with a good solvent? If not - try it.

 

[Durruti]

Tried it. Anything else?

 

[Shear_stress]

Sounds like a real pain. These guns are usually dead-nuts reliable. Out of curiosity, what kind of ammunition are you using? Have you tried different.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Sometimes it's an FTF, where the round partially loads and then gets stuck. Sometimes the spent cartridge completely fails to eject (it's still sitting in the chamber). Sometimes the spent cartridge fully ejects, the bolt closes, but fails to load a new cartridge from the magazine (this one especially baffles me).

I had a similar problem with my WASR-2. There's a little burr that directs the direction the brass goes when it ejects. I believe the burr needs to be sanded slightly. Note, I'm not a gunsmith, but this is how it was explained to me by the gunsmith who worked on my WASR. Also, a polishing of the feed ramp might help.

 

[Durruti]

The ammo I've shot in it is mostly Golden Tiger and some Brown Bear. Not quality stuff, I know, but it happened with both types. Maybe I'll pick up a box of decent stuff and see if it does the same thing.

I'll go ahead and try polishing the ramp (couldn't hurt). What exactly is the burr thing you're talking about? The extractor appears to have more wear than most other parts. Maybe it's catching there.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Extractor, sorry, that's what I meant. The ammo is catching on the extractor.

 

[MechAg94]

I had trouble with excessive mag wobble in my WASR 2. I found that the black polymer coated mags fit tighter and work better.

My WASR 2 sounds like the bolt is sitting on a bed of gravel but it works. You might want to cycle it without the cover on and see if there are any points were a burr or something is interfering with the bolt, bolt carrier, or plunger. Cycle it without the spring by hand. That might give you a better feel. Could the cover be interfering with the bolt carrier? Is there some way to make sure the gas port on the barrel is not blocked?

Just asking a bunch of dumb questions. You never know.

 

[MartinS]

Look at your bolt, is the extractor retaining pin sticking out? It should be just below the surface of the bolt.

 

[dstorm1911]

The weak cycling can be caused by a partially obstructed gas port its not uncommon with the WASR rifles to have the gas port actually drilled off center then with a straight gas block the gas port is partially blocked, the "burr" mentioned previously is the ejector its part of the left bolt rail, the extractor is mounted to the bolt and if the spring is weak it can be jumping over the rim on extraction...

The WASR rifles are built from the factory "seconds" left over from actual milspec rifle production running into out of spec components is very common with these rifles however most issues are not difficult to fix as in the end they are still an AK based design, your first step to trouble shooting the problem is to look at the extraction issue as the rest of the symptoms listed are all related to the cycling problem the extraction issue where it fails to extract is a seperate issue all its own..

First pull the bolt and inspect it, look at the extracter pin as recomended next place a case rim under the extracter claw and observe how tight it is held to the bolt face, also look at how the extracter claw fits into the case rim is the inside of the hook square with the bottom side of the rim? if it is then next look at how much of the hook is in contact ie; is the curvature of the extracter cut so that it is wrapping around the case rim or is it cut more square? it should fit cleanly and perfectly around the rim of the case with the extracter showing about .060" from the top of the extracter to the edge of the bolt (ya can slip a wire feeler gauge in between to measure it, the case head should be held firmly against the bolt face if not this is where that part of the problem lies..

look at the chamber to be sure there is no sign of blistered chrome, peeled chrome or a burr that could be catching the shell on extraction the barrels used in the WASRs are generally failed for mil-spec rifle use due to thin or incomplete chrome and blisters in the chamer area and around the gas port are very common.


FTF issue, remove the dust cover, the bolt carrier and bolt, linsert an empty mag and look at the mags right side feed lip now look at the lower bolt rail (right side) the mags feed lip should be level with that rail and about .085" lower than the rail much lower than this and ya will get failures to feed from the right side generally where it only partially catches the round or the bolt will ride over the cartridge just dragging it...

now to start with there is no such thing as too heavy of a recoil spring in an AK, the condition simply does not exist in fact they are most commonly to weak, what can create major problems however is people adding "buffers" to the rear of the recoil assembly they are completally useless as the bolt carrier will never touch the rear trunion unless ya have a worn out recoil spring but adding a buffer can wreak havoc on the rifles cycling as it disrupts the timing...

Start by checking your gas system starting at the gas port ya can insert a gas port cleaner or a piece of wire into the gas port through the gas block verify that the gas port is not obstructed, ya;d not believe the number of WASRs we get at the shop with an off center bored gas port then the gas block gets installed straight and walla instant obstruction, have even ran into several post 1983 Romanian milspec "G" kits with this problem as well as some polish guns etc.. they slip past the inspectors and......

O.K Gas port is not obstructed now look at the gas piston, they are designed to be loosly fitted to the bolt carrier and then riveted but Century welded on the ones with most High cap WASRS to save a few pennies in labor this creates a bind potential as the reason the mil-spec guns have em mounted loose is to allow them some give when cycling look at the edges of your gas piston for any signs of binding/rubbing the inside of the gas tube

if its clear then re-install the gas tube and now the bolt carrier without the bolt or recoil assembly, hand cycle, how does it feel? Any binding as ya slide it back and forth on the rails? any hesitation?

Its good?

O.K now re-install the bolt still no recoil spring and repeat...

no binding or hesitation etc?

now insert an empty mag and repeat.......

well if its still running fine at this point your out of reasons for it to not cycle fully to the rear upon fireing, now if ya noticed a drag when the bolt was reinstalled we need to first look at the ejector then the lower rails....... more on this later

DO NOT START FILING OR SANDING INDESCRIMINENTLY!!! Ya cannot replace metal removed on a just because......... do not do it! identify the real problem and then proceed with the correct fix..

post what ya find up to this point and then we'll go on from there..

 

[Durruti]

Thanks for all the advice! I'll have to give some of this a try tonight.

One more thing (I can't believe I forgot to mention this). Sometimes the bolt carrier doesn't fully close and it's very difficult to fully close by hand (ie, without the spring doing the work for me). It stops about half an inch or less from the fully closed position, but only when it's actually loading ammo. When this happens at the range I generally try to retract the bolt carrier, which requires a great deal of force to get it unstuck. Additionally, when I cycle rounds though without firing them, I find that they all have a scratch down the side of the casing. I'd imagine this points to a burr inside the chamber. Does that sound reasonable to anyone?

Like dstorm1911 said, I don't want to start removing anything 'til I know what's wrong.

Thanks again to everyone!

 

[Matt Dillon]

What it sounds like to me, is that the piston is binding on an off-center gas port, which is very common on these Romanian built AK clones. That would explain why the bolt carrier appears to bind, as well as a lot of your other issues.

 

[1 old 0311]

1) Clean the hell out of it. When you are done, clean it again.
2) Lube the rails, and bolt carrier.
3) Pull the bolt back, and let it slam home 100-150 times.

This cures most of the WASR problems.

 

[ID_shooting]

I am going to toss in my worthless internet opinion here (won't trust some random guy at the range, but will trust a bunch of random guys on the net, hehehe)

Symtoms as I understand them: Failure to eject, failure to go into battery with a round but does so on an empty chamber, failure to strip a round from the mag as seen by the charging handle not fully cycling (known as "short stroke"), Damage to the case when feeding or long scratch down the side.

First off, scases are scratched when fed from a mag, the mag lips do this, it is expected. Does the scrath still happen when the round is dropped into the chamer then the bolt is closed? Do this st the range with the rifle pionted down range so as not to have an AD where you don't want one!

Everything here can be explained or at least points to the chamber. resistance causes the FTE as ther is too much drag for the fired case to slide out smoothly this can also slow down the bolt travel causing your short stroke and not stripping the next round. FTF also points to a chamber issue. DO NOT POLISH the "FEED RAMP." There isn't one, if yours has one, somone dremmeled it and the barrel should be replaced.

What to do? Start by taking the rifle apart. take a flashlight and look in the chamber, it should be smooth and clean, no burrs or bumps of any kind. take a dry q-yip and run it over the entire surface of the chamber, did any cotton peel off, if so, you have a burr. if it appears to be smooth, look at color. It should be a nice brushed silver color. Not brown, black, or green. If it is not shiny AND silver, use a bood solvent, let it soak and HAND brush it with a chamber brush. Bore brushes usually do not touch the chamber. If you do not have or can not find a chamber brush, use a .40 cal bore brush on teh chamber. What you are looking for here is built up laquer form firing the rifle with Russian coated ammo. AKs are very tolerant of this, but if it has never been properly cleaned, it can build up and cause every issue you speak of.

If hand scrubbing doesn't resolve it, some folks will chuck the brush up in a drill and scrub the chamber under power. Caution applys here as you do not want to cause a burr my spinning parts. Worst case, the gun will need to be HOT to realease the built up coating. Not red hot, but hot to the touch. Shooting it then immediate hand brushing usually works.

Give this a shot. Tell us how it turns out.

 

[dstorm1911]

covered above

 

[strat81]

Clean the gas port using a solvent-dipped pipe cleaner. Walmart sells pipe cleaners in the crafts section. Check your gas block for cant. This site will explain cant and how to fix it: http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/index.shtml. Make sure everything is thoroughly and completely lubed, including the gas tube and gas piston. Plain gun oil (Rem Oil and similar) and a q-tip or finger works fine for this. Cycle the gun, without a mag or ammo, by hand a few hundred times. Check to make sure lube is everywhere it should be. Make sure the cosmoline is out of the gun. Cosmo can get sticky. Make sure to put a drop of oil on the hammer since the bolt carrier must slam against it when the gun cycles.

Don't despair, my WASR took about 300 rounds until it cycled reliably and all I've used is Wolf and Golden Tiger. Before it worked, I'd mostly get failures to eject since the rifle was apparently short-stroking. Good luck.

 

[MudPuppy]

Pull the bolt back, and let it slam home 100-150 times.

lol--and true.

Let us know the resolution please.

I didn't have any trouble with mine, but I still "fixed" it by selling it and getting a bulgy milled!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I hate to say this to you but.... Maybe this rifle has been a problem from the start. Did you wonder why it was available in only slightly used condition. The rifle might be a lemon and that's why the original owner sold it.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

Bolt carrier/piston. Mine had the EXACT same symtoms until CAI fixed it...

i'd try a new piston...

 

[Durruti]

Did you wonder why it was available in only slightly used condition.

That's exactly what I thought when I first took it to the range.

Quite a variety of suggestions here. I think I'll probably try the basic, no-modification ones (cleaning and oiling EVERYTHING and hand cycling a few hundred times). If that doesn't work, I think I'll check with a gunsmith. The do-it-yourselfer in me is screaming no, but I'm fairly new to firearms and I'd really hate to do something that allows it to, for example, fire out of battery.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll post what happens sometime in the next week or so.