Water volume case testing.

[mcb]

I just don’t trust other peoples data when my hands and face are at risk, it’s just too easy to create one’s own data ( start low and work up ) when starting an unfamiliar cartridge. I think too many guys try to take these shortcuts instead of putting in their own work and learning how to develop a load.

This is just my own opinion.

I agree with you I just use Quickloads as part of my work ups. To be safe you still have to start low and work up but using Quickloads it helps you predict how big of steps and how other changes will effect things as you working up. I have worked up loads from scratch with no published data for 450 Bushmaster back when it was new and not much data was available and for my 38-200 and 455 Webley were there is minimal data available. They are remarkably helpful programs if you take the time to learn how to use them.

 

[AJC1]

I just don’t trust other peoples data when my hands and face are at risk, it’s just too easy to create one’s own data ( start low and work up ) when starting an unfamiliar cartridge. I think too many guys try to take these shortcuts instead of putting in their own work and learning how to develop a load.

This is just my own opinion.

Some data helps you add saftey. If someone were to say military cases have less volume than civilian, that's a useless and untrue statement. If one were to say military 308 most of the time have less volume that's true and useful. This data is to determine which cases have more or equivalent volume, and allows you to expect more pressure in some cases.

 

[NMexJim]

The only reason I ever messed with case water volume was for handloads for a specific rifle and new bullet to guess-ta-mate powder density. I use a full length sized case (bumped) and a bullet seated to CBTO. I’ve used VMD charts and also run my own densities using the average of 10 tries, the object being to get over the old rule of thumb of 80+% of case volume for a particular powder. It’s a PITA, messy in more ways than one, and maybe QuickLoad isn’t so expensive after all. Says a lot for buying a truck load of a particular bullet and case and sticking with them. There are those of us who don’t like change for a reason.

 

[higgite]

The Quickload user guide says use a fired case, not resized, for peak pressures over 30,000 psi and a resized case for peak pressures under 30,000 psi to measure case capacities.

 

[unwashed]

I've use water case capacity for 30 years on all my bottleneck rifle rounds. Unprimed neck Sized cases (if no neck size FL sized), bullet seated and weighted. Then eject water through primer flash hole with syringe and needle. Fill it to just below primer flash hole, wipe excess water off and weight again for case capacity. Usually use a set of 5 to get an average. Start at 70-75% and work up to 92%-94%, no more then 95% of case capacity. I don't use a manual for this except for powder. Never had an issue.

 

[MrMagumba]

This data is to determine which cases have more or equivalent volume,

Are you interested in relative or absolute volume? Dealing with water in my loading area seems kind of messy. I have only tested volume to see which case brands were bigger or smaller for a particular project and not to use as part of a computer program. My method is to seat a spent primer upside down and fill the case with table salt. Then weigh the table salt. I suppose you could develop a conversion factor for salt weight to volume using the given salt "lot" in case of salt brand variations. Good luck.

 

[AJC1]

Are you interested in relative or absolute volume? Dealing with water in my loading area seems kind of messy. I have only tested volume to see which case brands were bigger or smaller for a particular project and not to use as part of a computer program. My method is to seat a spent primer upside down and fill the case with table salt. Then weigh the table salt. I suppose you could develop a conversion factor for salt weight to volume using the given salt "lot" in case of salt brand variations. Good luck.

My use is absolutely comparative, brand to brand. I try to generate data useful to many if possible.

 

[MrMagumba]

Water makes sense then. Looking forward to your results.

 

[Varminterror]

It’s pretty simple - if you’re measuring the relative internal volume of anything, the OUTSIDE dimension must be consistently controlled from one species to the next. If we do not control the outside dimension, the inner dimension then is meaningless. In the context of reloading ammunition, this means all brass to be compared must EITHER be formed using the same die, OR be fireformed to the same chamber - either will produce a relative description of the internal capacities of the species compared.

Obviously, as stated in the associated instruction, these predictive calculators are using internal capacity as a proxy for chamber-and-bore volume to model the peak pressure during firing.

I have found exceptionally little utility for volume sorting outside of extreme precision applications and TRUE wildcatting.

 

[JFrank]

I appreciate the input, this thread has aroused my curiosity towards water volume testing. I wonder if Nosler for example tests their cases fired or un fired ?
Myself, I not a water volume type of guy..

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Case Capacity a Question for Nosler

In you new #7 manual you list "Case Holds" "XX.X gr Water" In my experience there are two type of H20 case capacity measurements. One being "Case Water Capacity" which is the weight of water in grains that fits in the case under the seated bullet. The other and more useful to the...

forum.nosler.com

 

[JFrank]

Additional, if testing with the bullet seated I’ll assume a second layer of complexity with bullet irregularities.