Waterproof bullets

[Superlite27]

This summer, I went on a "float trip" where several friends and I rode inner tubes down a local river. (More like a glorified creek.)

As I am always armed, I wondered: "How do I remain viably armed if my firearm is constantly submerged in water?"

I was concerned about water damage to the bullets in my firearm. I took a Taurus M-85 titanium .38 and removed the grips. I then took para-cord and made a permanent lanyard through the frame at the base of the grip and reattached the rubber grip panels effectively making a solid belt lanyard.

Now, should I encounter any rough drunken characters while out in the middle of nowhere (which I did, but they didn't mess with anyone in my party) I would be able to defend myself with something other than a mean looking rock.

My only concern was the integrity of my bullets.

What I ended up doing was taking Locktite and applying it to the primer pocket and case rim and let them dry a couple of weeks before my trip. I did this to an entire box of bullets and threw half of them into a rain barrel where I let them sit underwater for a few days. Then, the day before my trip, I dumped them out and fired them at the range listening for squibs or misfires.

All good. Therefore, I assumed the ones I had treated similarly, but not submerged would also perform satisfactory.

Was I too paranoid? Will bullets without any sealant of any kind remain functional? What other methods to "waterproof" bullets are suggested, or is it even needed?

(BTW: After my trip, I took the snubby and the bullets I carried and shot it at the range where it performed flawlessly, so the Locktite worked.)

 

[Girodin]

(BTW: After my trip, I took the snubby and the bullets I carried and shot it at the range where it performed flawlessly, so the Locktite worked.)

Not to be a jerk but unless you had bullets without the locktite and they failed to firer then I think the conclusion that the locktite made a difference is speculation.

 

[Waywatcher]

All bullets are inherently waterproof; cartridges are not.

But I would recommend not loc-titing them, but instead torture testing some ammo (at least 10 rounds) and letting us know the results.

Maybe 2 feet of water for 2 hours. Make up your own test and see what happens. I would bet money they all fire.

Also, Like the above poster menitioned, just because you used loc-tite doesn't mean it worked. It might have done nothing at all; your cartridges might be waterproof already.

 

[dawico]

I carried my 38 revolver on a tubing trip also. The gun actually spent a lot of time totally submerged. After the trip, all of the ammo fired also. I used good factory ammo and did nothing special to seal them. I think you just wasted some Loc-tite.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Your rafting is not going to get the ammo wetter than soldiers get all the time in places like Panama or on a beach landing. You may see them holding their rifle over their heads but not ammo pouches. I would not worry about it. If it was a problem the military would have a SOP to cover waterproofing it and they don't.

 

[M-Cameron]

a simple plastic sandwich bag works wonders.....

 

[.41Dave]

In my experience, ammo seems to be pretty waterproof without any special sealants. I hate to admit it, but I have more than once inadvertently run a speedloader full of .38 special ammo through the washing machine. When it happens, I shoot those rounds on the next range trip. No failures to fire so far.

 

[rscalzo]

I'd be more concerned over the loss of the handgun.

Try this..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1221NY9PYFW9ADVMZVVX

 

[Manco]

What I ended up doing was taking Locktite and applying it to the primer pocket and case rim and let them dry a couple of weeks before my trip.

My understanding is that Loctite is expressly designed to cure in the absence of oxygen, which normally occurs when it's in between the threads of tightened screws, bolts, and nuts. In your case, I'd guess that it either cured very slowly, or cured only slightly and mostly just dried up.

I did this to an entire box of bullets and threw half of them into a rain barrel where I let them sit underwater for a few days. Then, the day before my trip, I dumped them out and fired them at the range listening for squibs or misfires.

All good. Therefore, I assumed the ones I had treated similarly, but not submerged would also perform satisfactory.

As others have pointed out already, these cartridges may have been able to survive the submergence without the Loctite treatment, which itself is suspect due to improper application. In addition, had the Loctite itself penetrated the primers, it might have had some chance of rendering some of the cartridges duds. Anyway, it would have been useful to have tested some untreated cartridges for comparison, which in the scientific world is known as a control group.

Was I too paranoid? Will bullets without any sealant of any kind remain functional? What other methods to "waterproof" bullets are suggested, or is it even needed?

First of all, some factory cartridges are already well sealed, while others are not. For example, Winchester PDX1 cartridges are sealed with a clear lacquer around the primers and asphaltum around the bullets, so pretty much nothing is getting in there (short of substances such as acids, for obvious reasons) no matter how long they are submerged. Most consumer factory cartridges, I think, are not sealed in any such manner, although they are generally pressed together tightly enough that contaminants such as water, with its relatively high surface tension, probably would not penetrate them. However, penetrating oils just might, as well as atmospheric water vapor over long periods of time.

Some would say that you're being paranoid because incidental contact with water is highly unlikely to cause problems in properly manufactured cartridges, but where defensive ammo is concerned, I personally think that sealed cartridges are at the very least preferable as an additional precaution.

As for how best to seal cartridges oneself, admittedly I've never given that much thought. Lacquer seems to work for manufacturers, so you could try that. I would definitely not recommend Loctite for many reasons, and certainly nothing that could penetrate into the cartridges themselves.

Your rafting is not going to get the ammo wetter than soldiers get all the time in places like Panama or on a beach landing. You may see them holding their rifle over their heads but not ammo pouches. I would not worry about it. If it was a problem the military would have a SOP to cover waterproofing it and they don't.

Unless I'm mistaken, virtually all military ammo is sealed at the factory by specification, as opposed to being a SOP for soldiers to carry out. They appear to be sealed in much the same manner as I described for PDX1 cartridges above. While they probably don't have to be sealed, it is nevertheless a prudent precaution, in my opinion.

 

[tekarra]

With clear nail polish, brush around the primer to case and bullet to case. Use it sparingly, maybe two coats. If you want to go wild, use bright pink nail polish.

 

[jdowney]

Military ammo is typically sealed at the primer and the neck to prevent any problems. While factory ammo seems to be sealed pretty good by all accounts here, I have a friend who had problems with his handloads while hunting in the rain - probably not crimping like the pros do. Shellac or nail polish should do the trick if you find it necessary, sounds like loctite's ok too.

 

[essayons21]

Seriously, get a dry bag.

 

[nevermas]

a small otter or pelican case would work too, you can also put your cell phone/electronics in it

 

[TIMC]

I conducted an imformal test recently by accident. I had 9 rounds of 230 grain .45 acp go through the washer so I figured why not give them a try. All rounds fired with no issue.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

(BTW: After my trip, I took the snubby and the bullets I carried and shot it at the range where it performed flawlessly, so the Locktite worked.)

I hate to point it out yet again, but that is false logic. If you treated the rounds with something like, say, an orange crayon, and they then fired, could you conclude then that the orange crayon made them waterproof? I didn't think so.

Fact is, most ammo is fairly waterproof. Drop it in a creek, fish it out and shake the water off and load it up. It will work just fine.

 

[Manco]

I conducted an imformal test recently by accident. I had 9 rounds of 230 grain .45 acp go through the washer so I figured why not give them a try. All rounds fired with no issue.

Were they sealed?

sounds like loctite's ok too.

Loctite is really not designed for such a purpose at all--it doesn't cure or dry like a regular glue or lacquer, and may not seal anything unless oxygen is removed somehow.

 

[TIMC]

No they were just loose in a pants pocket and they flopped around in the washer for an hour.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

And no you are not talking about bullets, you are making false assumtions about ammunition, or cartridges.

 

[Tilos]

I wash brass before tumbling to remove grit.
Several times I have found loaded ammo had been washed too
I just marked them and single load them on the next range trip.
All have gone bang and this is after a 2 day soak in soapy water
Just my hand loads with lead bullets and no special treatment other than the soak.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Buy the cheap stuff or milsup, already done....
esp. the russian or European stuff, with the red paint around the primer.

 

[Floppy_D]

I'm not sure if you're a reloader; but when reloading rounds, you gain a respect for the amount of mechanical advantage required to seat a primer or bullet. I have no doubt that modern ammo is watertight; moreso, seating the bullet puts it under mild pressure. I'll toss ten factory rounds and ten reloads in a tub of water and resurrect this thread in a year, just for grins.

 

[Patriotme]

About 5 years ago my downstairs flooded for about 4 hrs. I had about 1-2' of water in my lower level. Guess where my ammo was stored? Yep, it was in a footlocker and under a foot or so of water for several hours. I got the ammo out of the water and left it on a table to dry. I spent the next couple of days wiping it down and repacking it. I had a lot of ammo and there was no way that I could afford to replace it all. The .22lr got thrown away because it's cheap and I'd rather loose a few bucks than wipe down all of those cheap little rounds. The rest of my ammo was saved.
Anyway, I had a mix of 9mm. Most was Silver Bear and gunshow reloads. I had a little Blazer, Remington and a few other brands mixed in there. The same can be said of my .40 cal ammo. I also had a lot of shotgun shells in 20ga and 12ga. I had some military surplus .308 and a few hundred rnds of 38spl.
I shot up all of this ammo over the next year and out of a couple of thousand of rounds I only had 3 failures to fire. It was all 9mm and .38spl. I was pretty impressed with the quality of all of the ammo as it was all submerged for hours and wasn't dried out for at least 24 hours. I was very suprised that the Russian stuff and reloads held up as well as the factory ammo.

 

[Superlite27]

I forgot how folks around here can be.

Good thing I didn't put these bullets into any clips.

I'm going to have to try the orange crayon, though.

Yes, I know they are technically cartridges. I'm still going to call them bullets. Yes I know what a control group is. I didn't use one as I am not a scientist. I fully realize that it may, or may not have been the Locktite that kept the bullets functional. I'm going to assume that they would have fired regardless of the treatment. What I really meant to say is "the cartridges with Locktite on them functioned as intended regardless of any control group.", but you know me, the consummate rebel. Always messin' with the man.

As for the Locktite's "set", it did remain tacky for several days, but after a week, had dried to a plastic like hardness. (I did have a method of sorts to determine this: I smeared a bunch on the box lid and it remained runny for a few days. I didn't want to do anything more scientific as I am not a licensed scientist. After a week, it had solidified, so I assumed the stuff on the BULLETS) had done so, also. Yes, I know what happens when I assume. In this thread, everyone else is generally a bigger one that I.

Thanks for all the input from those with valid suggestions. Although I have come to the conclusion from several posts that added sealant is probably unneccessary, I will probably use some kind of laquer or even nail polish in the future. (most likely bright pink, as I am secure in my manhood and shooting pink coated BULLETS (correct this time, no?) would be cool.

Yes, for you scientists, I fully realize the pink nail polish would most likely burn, resulting in a non-pink projectile. For you purists, I also realize that the color of the bullet has no effect on performance. For everyone else, thank you for your advice.

BTW: Has anyone here ever tried to fire a snubbie from a dry bag? How do you think that'll go over? Maybe you could do a scientific test and wrap your CCW in shrinkwrap and walk through a bad part of town. I'll carry mine without it as a "control group".

 

[The Bushmaster]

Proper nomenclature is more important then you [obviously] realize. Without the use of proper nomenclature mistakes can and do occur. I ask that you try and use proper nomenclature at least on here and around those less educated.

 

[jdowney]

I forgot how folks around here can be.

Good thing I didn't put these bullets into any clips.

I'm going to have to try the orange crayon, though.

yeah, ain't it the truth? Good thing you used your spell checker though, otherwise I'd have to jump on the dog pile too....

Though proper nomenclature is often important, in many cases words are indeed interchangeable in common use, such as the examples above. To insist on a single specific use in these cases merely identifies one as overly pedantic. I'd say the best course is to attempt to effect change by example rather than lecture.