We Never Should Have Rebuilt Them
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Tamara
Senior Member
Speaking of which, have the French repaid their War Debt yet? From the '14-'18 War, I mean...
T.Stahl
Member
I've been living here all my life and I don't think that many Germans claim a victim status. At least far, far less than the Japanese, which every August get their news coverage from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (BTW, they lost far more lives to night raids with incendiaries mixed with delay-fused HEs to hamper the firefighters than to the two A-bombs)
Tamara, what do you expect me to do? Shall I say that it was right to bomb German cities filled with refugees? Shall I say that I'm sorry that the allies didn't drop more bombs?
Bombing London was wrong. Bombing Hamburg was wrong, too. But I can understand why the RAF did it, because Germany started it.
Tamara, what do you expect me to do? Shall I say that it was right to bomb German cities filled with refugees? Shall I say that I'm sorry that the allies didn't drop more bombs?
Bombing London was wrong. Bombing Hamburg was wrong, too. But I can understand why the RAF did it, because Germany started it.
Tamara
Senior Member
Er, actually I was going to say "I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's understandable." You stole the words from my mouth.
(Thanks for the catch on "incendiaries"; I thought it looked funny the way I was typing it.
)seeker_two
Member
Our biggest problem in these cases is that the gov't goes against the idea of spreading freedom & support the local dictator instead of establishing a free republic like we have. We did that in Japan & Germany, and they prospered. We supported dictators in Haiti, the Balkans, and the Phillipines; and look what happened.
When we go in to establish Iraq's new gov't, we need to use OUR Constitution as the blueprint--and keep the dictators out!
T.Stahl
Member
Ah, these permanent misunderstandings, caused by not seeing the expression on the other's face.
Hrmmm.
Some points here (probably not mainstream on this board, but anyway...)
Take note of this quote:
I say let 'em be. Personally, I'm tired of footing the bill for Europe's defense -- let 'em handle it themselves.
But I'm not gonna blame some kid for trusting here teachers, or for believing the media's take on events without applying critical thought. I think it's foolish, but I can't even make my own sister take a more cynical view.
[edit: forgot the word "hundred" in there. Makes a difference.]
Some points here (probably not mainstream on this board, but anyway...)
- Highschool kids should be expected to be ignorant. They know what they've processed from what other people have told them; they don't have much life experience yet. For the most part, they're not mature enough to look around and come to their own conclusions, instead relying on what they're told. There's a reason 18-year-olds are preferred over older men in the Army (coming from one who went through basic/jump school/rip at 20-21 with a little bit of college and saw a huge difference between kids fresh out of high school and older folks.)
- It's good to reexamine the concept of "total war." Yes, Hitler thought it was a good idea first, but the fact is we did target civilian population centers in WW2. Was it right? Is it ever right to deliberately target noncombatants (especially children) in war? Same with Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- we killed a couple of hundred thousand people in order to avoid casualties that looked to be in the millions (on our side -- worse on theirs). Was it the right thing to do? Is it OK to look back on history and discuss the moral/ethical/pragmatic issues involved? If so, is it OK for some kids to come to a conclusion other than yours?
- Germany is still an occupied country. Our forces never left after WW2 -- I know, as I was stationed there. Believe it or not, there are a bunch of kids growing up over there who are upset at the idea that they're still expected to pay the price for something their grandparents were a part of. There's a huge collective guilt over the holocaust still (at least, my friends there a decade ago thought so, having grown up in it), and there are nationalistic feeling in many of the youth there. I think that's ok -- I don't happen to believe that a man should be held accountable for the mistakes of his ancestors.
Take note of this quote:
Now, how balanced a view do you think they're getting about current events? About Bush's motive for pushing the Hussein thing? Do you expect an 18-year-old German kid to be able to see through the images and stories they're being spoon-fed, when we see the same sorts of attitudes here in our own country?
I say let 'em be. Personally, I'm tired of footing the bill for Europe's defense -- let 'em handle it themselves.
But I'm not gonna blame some kid for trusting here teachers, or for believing the media's take on events without applying critical thought. I think it's foolish, but I can't even make my own sister take a more cynical view.
[edit: forgot the word "hundred" in there. Makes a difference.]
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T.Stahl
Member
No, we're no longer under occupation, we're a sovereign state. Or is Great Britain under US occupation, just because your forces never left GB after WW2?
VE-day was almost 58 years ago. Of course people are slowly getting fed up with paying the price for something that happened when even their parents weren't yet born. The feeling of guilt should have been replaced by the awareness of what has happened and the sense of duty to prevent it from happening again.
I think no other country is as un-patriotic as today's Germany. Patriotism was equalled to nationalism, which is evil. Germans weren't allowed to be patriotic and if they felt something like it, it had to be a kind of European patriotism.
The problem is, when you aren't allowed to be patriotic, to be proud of your own country, how can you repect and understand someone else's patriotism. Hey, if a German would behave as patriotic as the average American, he'd be considered rather nationalistic.
Of course taboos lead to extremes. People try to live up their desires. And someone else will take advantage of them. The goal should be to instill a healthy patriotic feeling in them, so they will be able to respect other people and nations as well.
gburner
member
Once more, with feeling
Upon reflection, I think some of our French and German friends have it right.
Maybe the time has come to cease the expectation of a hearty thanks from them. In fact, maybe it's time that we start thanking them. In the interest of international cooperation and the peace and stability of mankind, I'll start...
I'll thank you to pull your own hidparts out of the fire the next time totalitarian fascism rears its ugly head on the continent and you hear the sound of jackboots coming down the avenues of Paris.
I'll thank you to obey the UN you so lovingly embrace and stop selling weapons, spare parts, ammunition and fixins for chemical and biological weapons to Iraq.
I'll thank you to cancel the billions of dollars worth of petro-development deals
with Iraq that fly in the face of UN sanctions.
I'll thank you to remember that as Hamburg, Frankfort, Berlin and other targets were being bombed with civilian casualties as a result, your death's head troopers were engaged in the wholesale slaughter of so called sub humans both in the countryside and in death factories.
I'll thank you Berliners to remember that dispite Joe Stalin's attempt to starve you out, we mounted the greatest airlift of supplies man has ever known.
I'll thank you all to shut your mouths and stop playing parlor games while we attempt to short circuit what could be the largest threat to civilization since the last time the French had uninvited guests.
Upon reflection, I think some of our French and German friends have it right.
Maybe the time has come to cease the expectation of a hearty thanks from them. In fact, maybe it's time that we start thanking them. In the interest of international cooperation and the peace and stability of mankind, I'll start...
I'll thank you to pull your own hidparts out of the fire the next time totalitarian fascism rears its ugly head on the continent and you hear the sound of jackboots coming down the avenues of Paris.
I'll thank you to obey the UN you so lovingly embrace and stop selling weapons, spare parts, ammunition and fixins for chemical and biological weapons to Iraq.
I'll thank you to cancel the billions of dollars worth of petro-development deals
with Iraq that fly in the face of UN sanctions.
I'll thank you to remember that as Hamburg, Frankfort, Berlin and other targets were being bombed with civilian casualties as a result, your death's head troopers were engaged in the wholesale slaughter of so called sub humans both in the countryside and in death factories.
I'll thank you Berliners to remember that dispite Joe Stalin's attempt to starve you out, we mounted the greatest airlift of supplies man has ever known.
I'll thank you all to shut your mouths and stop playing parlor games while we attempt to short circuit what could be the largest threat to civilization since the last time the French had uninvited guests.
T. Stahl,
I think we're actually in agreement here, if using different words. "Occupation" was a term I heard frequently while "out on the economy," generally in a passive tone, when referring to how some of those other people feel. You know -- those people in combat boots with white laces. Those people whose positions are completely unacceptable (your friend will tell you), but understandable. The general excuse was "they just want to be proud of their country and their history, instead of constantly being reminded why they should be ashamed."
I think you're going to create problems when you raise men to believe that pride in who they are & where they come from is a path toward evil. I see it here in the US, where white men are apologetic for being born white and male; some go so far as to believe that any success they develop in life is in large part the result of racial inequality that's part of our history. It's the source for a lot of collective guilt in the US.
I don't believe it's healthy.
The healthy thing to say is "yes, there are a number of things in our nation's past that are inexcusable, and that personified the word "evil." But you can't unmake the past, and I can't be held accountable for actions that occurred before I was conceived. Let's move forward as best we can, and learn from the mistakes of the past." Seems to work with the slaughter of millions, or with chattel slavery, or whatever.
We're getting off-topic though. I'm not shocked that people coming out of German high schools would take a position like was stated in the article quoted. There's a different feeling in younger generations than in older generations -- I had old men pull me aside and tell me what they were doing in the war, and how they were glad the US won; old women would feed me when I was supposed to be out roadmarching, thankful for my presense; younger kids (who could afford cars and licenses) might yell and give us the finger. They thought we were an occupying force (of course the M16's and armored vehicles probably added to that perception.)
That's just the way it is.
I think we're actually in agreement here, if using different words. "Occupation" was a term I heard frequently while "out on the economy," generally in a passive tone, when referring to how some of those other people feel. You know -- those people in combat boots with white laces. Those people whose positions are completely unacceptable (your friend will tell you), but understandable. The general excuse was "they just want to be proud of their country and their history, instead of constantly being reminded why they should be ashamed."
I think you're going to create problems when you raise men to believe that pride in who they are & where they come from is a path toward evil. I see it here in the US, where white men are apologetic for being born white and male; some go so far as to believe that any success they develop in life is in large part the result of racial inequality that's part of our history. It's the source for a lot of collective guilt in the US.
I don't believe it's healthy.
The healthy thing to say is "yes, there are a number of things in our nation's past that are inexcusable, and that personified the word "evil." But you can't unmake the past, and I can't be held accountable for actions that occurred before I was conceived. Let's move forward as best we can, and learn from the mistakes of the past." Seems to work with the slaughter of millions, or with chattel slavery, or whatever.
We're getting off-topic though. I'm not shocked that people coming out of German high schools would take a position like was stated in the article quoted. There's a different feeling in younger generations than in older generations -- I had old men pull me aside and tell me what they were doing in the war, and how they were glad the US won; old women would feed me when I was supposed to be out roadmarching, thankful for my presense; younger kids (who could afford cars and licenses) might yell and give us the finger. They thought we were an occupying force (of course the M16's and armored vehicles probably added to that perception.)
That's just the way it is.
Ledbetter
Member
Where to start?
Germany provided the potential battle-field for WWIII for half a decade. My father served eight years in the German army to defend the iron curtain. My brother and I served our terms. We protected your East coast and made sure that your mainland wouldn't see a war. I don't expect thanks for a mutual help.
Inscrutable logic at work here. It's not like Germany volunteered to be the battleground for the cold war for our benefit. Nor did they intend to protect OUR east coast. You certainly shouldn't expect any thanks from me, as I perceive no intent to benefit me or my country.
What I perceive in this situation is that the German government, for the second time in the same century, turned into a rabid dog that had to be destroyed before it killed everything around it. After that destruction, which left the populace defenseless against the Soviets, other more responsible governments had to protect the populace until the end of the Cold War.
Unfortunately just when the allies decided to bomb a city filled with refugees and without any military importance. Have you see phosphor running into the cellar you're hiding in? Have you seen the tar of streets burning? Were you about to jump into a river because you couldn't bear it any longer?
This is the High Road, so all I will ask is if you're ever inhaled Zyklon-B or been machine-gunned into your own grave. Your comparison of the actions of the Allies in World War II with the actions of the German government is quite repugnant and displays prominently the selective nature of your (nation's) memory.
The goal should be to instill a healthy patriotic feeling in them, so they will be able to respect other people and nations as well.
Bliss-ninny lunacy. The goal should be to conduct your nation in such a way as to make your people proud. Americans are, on the whole, proud of their country's actions over the last century. We are courageous, generous, right-minded prople and DAMN proud of our country with good reason.
To boost your people's self-esteem, your nation should something great and good for a change.
Germany provided the potential battle-field for WWIII for half a decade. My father served eight years in the German army to defend the iron curtain. My brother and I served our terms. We protected your East coast and made sure that your mainland wouldn't see a war. I don't expect thanks for a mutual help.
Inscrutable logic at work here. It's not like Germany volunteered to be the battleground for the cold war for our benefit. Nor did they intend to protect OUR east coast. You certainly shouldn't expect any thanks from me, as I perceive no intent to benefit me or my country.
What I perceive in this situation is that the German government, for the second time in the same century, turned into a rabid dog that had to be destroyed before it killed everything around it. After that destruction, which left the populace defenseless against the Soviets, other more responsible governments had to protect the populace until the end of the Cold War.
Unfortunately just when the allies decided to bomb a city filled with refugees and without any military importance. Have you see phosphor running into the cellar you're hiding in? Have you seen the tar of streets burning? Were you about to jump into a river because you couldn't bear it any longer?
This is the High Road, so all I will ask is if you're ever inhaled Zyklon-B or been machine-gunned into your own grave. Your comparison of the actions of the Allies in World War II with the actions of the German government is quite repugnant and displays prominently the selective nature of your (nation's) memory.
The goal should be to instill a healthy patriotic feeling in them, so they will be able to respect other people and nations as well.
Bliss-ninny lunacy. The goal should be to conduct your nation in such a way as to make your people proud. Americans are, on the whole, proud of their country's actions over the last century. We are courageous, generous, right-minded prople and DAMN proud of our country with good reason.
To boost your people's self-esteem, your nation should something great and good for a change.
All nation states take care of their own interests. It is a foolish dream of Americans
to think that states will act in accord with their values. We certainly supported
dictators all over the world because we feared the Soviets.
However, the Germans have little to complain about during WWII. Being mistreated
by the Treaty of Versailles does not excuse becoming a pathological monstrosity that
will rememberd for 1000's of years.
Any action necessary should have been taken. If in 1943, we developed a space warp
device that would send all of Germany into the sun, would you tell the Allies not to
press that buttion?
It wasn't as if the German people were not part and parcel of their nation's crimes.
Basically, the time for Nato is over. The Soviets are kaput and Nato was just an alliance against
them. The EU is so militarily ineffective that they are a joke.
It is also the case that the UN has outlived its life. We gave it authority when we dominated
it. We don't. Stop pretending that the Charter has real power over us. Only force works
in this world. Time to realize it.
If Iran invented the time warp - they wouldn't go the Security Council. The USA
and Israel would be instantly destroyed.
to think that states will act in accord with their values. We certainly supported
dictators all over the world because we feared the Soviets.
However, the Germans have little to complain about during WWII. Being mistreated
by the Treaty of Versailles does not excuse becoming a pathological monstrosity that
will rememberd for 1000's of years.
Any action necessary should have been taken. If in 1943, we developed a space warp
device that would send all of Germany into the sun, would you tell the Allies not to
press that buttion?
It wasn't as if the German people were not part and parcel of their nation's crimes.
Basically, the time for Nato is over. The Soviets are kaput and Nato was just an alliance against
them. The EU is so militarily ineffective that they are a joke.
It is also the case that the UN has outlived its life. We gave it authority when we dominated
it. We don't. Stop pretending that the Charter has real power over us. Only force works
in this world. Time to realize it.
If Iran invented the time warp - they wouldn't go the Security Council. The USA
and Israel would be instantly destroyed.
There's only one little problem with all the anti- US anti Bush rhetoric. It it not based on facts or history. In every example where US miltiary force was used (usually reluctantly), the conquered ememy was propped up, and in most ways left better off than it was. Maybe Europeans simply don't learn from past mistakes (that could explain the number of wars they've participated in). The US has learned that you don't wait until you've been beaten, to begin defending yourself. Bush SR. made a serious mistake by not carrying the first war to Bagdad.
Liberals, both here and abroad, were making nearly identical anti-US statements when we went into Afghanistan. Has the outcome there (thus far) already been forgotten?
How does life in S. Korea compare to that of the north? What's going on in Serbia/Kosovo these days?
Somali's are begging for us to come back, and cursing the day that Blackhawks were shot down.
We don't ask Europe for eternal gratitude- we only ask you to judge our actions after studying our history.
Liberals, both here and abroad, were making nearly identical anti-US statements when we went into Afghanistan. Has the outcome there (thus far) already been forgotten?
How does life in S. Korea compare to that of the north? What's going on in Serbia/Kosovo these days?
Somali's are begging for us to come back, and cursing the day that Blackhawks were shot down.
We don't ask Europe for eternal gratitude- we only ask you to judge our actions after studying our history.
T.Stahl
Member
Do you have costal gun emplacements and SAM sites along your East and West Coast? Do you maintain flotillas of shallow water subs? Do you have mechanized divisions on your Northern border?
No, because it's the US's strategy to defend CONUS on the opposite coast. You have troops stationed on the West coast of Asia, not only to protect South Korea and Japan from an invasion, but also to prevent any enemy from attacking you from that coast.
Likewise you had troops stationed in Europe, not only to protect Western and Central Europe together with your allies from an attack from the Warsaw Pact, but also to protect your East Coast.
It's mutual help. You help me protect my country and by defending my country, yours will be safe, too.
I don't expect you to thank me. I'd be happy if you'd just see the benefit for you and your country.
I did not compare the genocide the Nazis committed and the Allied bombing of cities filled with civilian refugees. Nor did I try to offset one action with the other.
In retrospect I regard both actions as wrong. But I'm not saying that the genocide was less wrong because the bombings happened.
I mentioned my grandma's experience, because I got the impression that Blackhawk didn't like the tv documentaries regarding the Allied air war. What my grandparents told me about the war influenced my decision to join the army to defend my country and prevent such cruelty from happening again (coming from a different source, the WP).
Ledbetter, I am proud to be a German, just as you are proud to be an American. There are things in Germany's history I CAN be proud of and there are things in my country's history that I'm ashamed of, that I remember and that I will prevent from happening again. I accept my country's history as a whole, including its dark spots, but not limiting it to them. I hope you do likewise, because then we can accept each other as equals and respect the other's feelings for his country.
T.Stahl - I think we all draw conclusions based on our own experiences and a collective memory. Your view of our government, and our actions, is tinted with the memories of the actions of your own government and your country's past. I'm not saying that's a totally bad thing, but it might explain the difference of opinion that we all seem to have.
T.Stahl
Member
Derek, I see we agree.
Those who consider the presence of US forces as an "occupation" are wrong. And those who say that the US forces were and are here only to protect Europe are wrong, too. Stationing large parts of European forces in the US wouldn't have helped our alliance. Keeping all of the US forces in CONUS wouldn't have helped either. Your forces have to be close to where a war would happen.
I hate those guys with the white laces. They are a disgrace and don't help my country's image. The only soft spot I have for them is on the forward end of a bullet. They are an example for an unhealthy, over done patriotism that has turned into nationalism. I can neither understand nor accept them.
Those who consider the presence of US forces as an "occupation" are wrong. And those who say that the US forces were and are here only to protect Europe are wrong, too. Stationing large parts of European forces in the US wouldn't have helped our alliance. Keeping all of the US forces in CONUS wouldn't have helped either. Your forces have to be close to where a war would happen.
I hate those guys with the white laces. They are a disgrace and don't help my country's image. The only soft spot I have for them is on the forward end of a bullet. They are an example for an unhealthy, over done patriotism that has turned into nationalism. I can neither understand nor accept them.
That is dangerous. It's dangerous to underestimate them and treat them like misguided little boys.
T.Stahl
Member
Atticus, of course the conclusions one draws are influenced by one's point of view and the background against which he sees the things. I'm not denying what has happened and of course it has to influence what I think and how I act.
rock jock
Member
A frequently misinterpretation. The truth is that the reparations were neither onerous nor unusual. The myth of the "terrible humiliation and financial hardship" wrought by the Treaty of Versailles is one popularly promoted in the first part of the 20th century and embraced by Germans as an excuse for their starting of WWII, but it is historical revisionism nonetheless.
Ledbetter
Member
Simple and slow
you had troops stationed in Europe, not only to protect Western and Central Europe together with your allies from an attack from the Warsaw Pact, but also to protect your East Coast.
It's mutual help.
Mutual implies equal or at least similar benefit. Let's see, our east coast is over three thousand miles from the soviet border. How close was yours? Who got the lion's share of the protection and who paid the lion's share of the cost. "Mutual?" Better look that word up.
You also left out the second half of my statement. The fact that Germany ended up right next door to the USSR is Germany's own fault. Before Germany destroyed eastern Europe, there was no need for the US to station troops there because eastern Europe hadn't been crushed by the Original Jack Booted Thugs. You destroy the buffer--you become the buffer. It ain't a favor, it's the natural, foreseeable consequence of Germany's own actions.
If you can find something about your country to be proud of, good for you. Whom did YOU liberate? (I thought so.)
you had troops stationed in Europe, not only to protect Western and Central Europe together with your allies from an attack from the Warsaw Pact, but also to protect your East Coast.
It's mutual help.
Mutual implies equal or at least similar benefit. Let's see, our east coast is over three thousand miles from the soviet border. How close was yours? Who got the lion's share of the protection and who paid the lion's share of the cost. "Mutual?" Better look that word up.
You also left out the second half of my statement. The fact that Germany ended up right next door to the USSR is Germany's own fault. Before Germany destroyed eastern Europe, there was no need for the US to station troops there because eastern Europe hadn't been crushed by the Original Jack Booted Thugs. You destroy the buffer--you become the buffer. It ain't a favor, it's the natural, foreseeable consequence of Germany's own actions.
If you can find something about your country to be proud of, good for you. Whom did YOU liberate? (I thought so.)
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trooper
Member
Well, of course we DID give the world Hitler, the concentration camps and numerous other atrocities; no doubt about that.
On the other hand we also gave the world Goethe, Kant, the car (and still today the best specimen thereof), great beer
, flight (think Otto Lilienthal), Mozart... do I need to go on?Seriously, for example I'm rather proud of my eastern countrymen's peaceful revolution in 1989 (while I do recognize that we owe a great deal to both Americans and Michail Gorbatchev).
I'm proud of my country being one of the world's most stable democracies.
I'm proud of my country burying its century-lasting aversion with France and taking part in an endeavour to unite European nations that have fought among themselves all their lives.
That said, I view myself as a European just as much as a German. And I'm proud of my greater homecountry being the past and present cultural center of our Western civilization.
If your patriotic pride is based on the assumption that your country doesn't have any dark spots in its history then you're in for a major disappointment no matter what nation you belong to.
Regards,
Trooper
hops
Member
Germany, directly or indirectly helped liberate lots of people.
1815 - With England, Russia, Austria, defeated France / Napoleon. Also, saved England's / Wellington's butt at Waterloo.
1871 - Freed Alsance and Lorraine.
Helped also Italy create its modern self, by weakening Austria-Hungary (1866) and crushing France (1871).
1917-1918: Finland
1941 - (tried) Baltic countries - lots of them followed the German army back to Germany in 1944-1945.
1942 - (tried) The Ukraine. My great uncle marched through and the German troops were welcomed as ,liberators. Quite a few Ukranians followed the German army west in 1944-1945.
(The west seems to forget that Stalin starved 10-12 million of them in 1933-1934).
You can argure that since Germany bled England white in WWII, and weakened France:
French Indo-China.
India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Singapore, Palestine / Israel since England no longer had the military and fiscal resources to dominate these inhabitants.
Also, concentration camps are an English invention. Read about the Boer War. When the Boer's, defeated in the field, resorted to guerrilla warefare, the English rounded up the Boer families in to camps and let them rot, literally.
1815 - With England, Russia, Austria, defeated France / Napoleon. Also, saved England's / Wellington's butt at Waterloo.
1871 - Freed Alsance and Lorraine.
Helped also Italy create its modern self, by weakening Austria-Hungary (1866) and crushing France (1871).
1917-1918: Finland
1941 - (tried) Baltic countries - lots of them followed the German army back to Germany in 1944-1945.
1942 - (tried) The Ukraine. My great uncle marched through and the German troops were welcomed as ,liberators. Quite a few Ukranians followed the German army west in 1944-1945.
(The west seems to forget that Stalin starved 10-12 million of them in 1933-1934).
You can argure that since Germany bled England white in WWII, and weakened France:
French Indo-China.
India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Singapore, Palestine / Israel since England no longer had the military and fiscal resources to dominate these inhabitants.
Also, concentration camps are an English invention. Read about the Boer War. When the Boer's, defeated in the field, resorted to guerrilla warefare, the English rounded up the Boer families in to camps and let them rot, literally.
Waitone
Member
I was under the impression the modern concentration camp was an American innovation. Up until Grant took over command of Union forces both sides employed a catch and release policy.
Grant rode into town and didn't think that was such a good thing and refused to repatriate confederate captives. The confederates went and did likewise. Only problem was the south didn't have the resources for proper care and feeding of prisoners in great numbers. That led to Andersonville. The North had several camps of the same caliber but their names escape me.
Seems like I read this in a history book somewhere at sometime.
Grant rode into town and didn't think that was such a good thing and refused to repatriate confederate captives. The confederates went and did likewise. Only problem was the south didn't have the resources for proper care and feeding of prisoners in great numbers. That led to Andersonville. The North had several camps of the same caliber but their names escape me.
Seems like I read this in a history book somewhere at sometime.
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