We visited a Phoenix PD gun "buy back"

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AZRickD

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TV print and video report: http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2008/06/28/20080628gunbuyback06282008-CR.html

I was joined by Alan Korwin and a few members of [email protected] listserve members as well as a couple from www.ArizonaShooting.com .

We randomly happened to meet at the Phx PD precinct at Southern and 7th Ave. There we yakked with about eight police officers who were earning some OT manning the table. None expressed any positive opinion on the gun buy back. We did bump into anti-gun Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon who agreed to pose for this cheery photo surrounded by we RKBA enthusiasts. By the looks of it, he has the gun vote all sewed up. :D

GunBBackGordon1.jpg

The radio cross-talk on the PD network showed that the hot sites were a few blocks east of us at two local baptist churches. We headed down there and randomly split up. There we talked to the pastor and another eight Phx PD earning OT. Hmmm. Five sites times eight cops = 40 cops on OT. All for something that doesn't do a whit to reduce crime.

Here is a lower-ranking LEO going out to intercept a person in an attempt to keep us from wheeling and dealing.

PhxPD-BuyBack.jpg

We headed back to the Phx PD precinct to get more cars so we could further split up. Open our arrival we saw Univision and Channel 12 TV arrive. We chatted with Univision to give our side of the story and I did an interview with Channel 12's cutie reporter, Melissa Gonzales:

PHP457787705F389.jpg

The randomly assembled crowd of gunnies came there for differing reasons. Some came to get deals on guns and sell some junk they picked up for $20. The Public Information Officer lied when he said there were no crappy guns. They were legion. Rust-covered shotguns, thrashed .22 rifles. 100-year old revolvers. Others were there to chronicle the event.

I was there to see how the operation was run, talk to rank-n-file police (most there thought it was a waste of time but were glad to be earning the over-time) and talk to and educate the reporters that came along.

If I hadn't volunteered to be interviewed, there would not have been "an alternative opinion." As usual, the editor/producer hacked into the story picked what was felt to be my juiciest statement (they're always looking for conflict, and simple A to B logic). Something more complicated won't get on. While "I don't think any gang bangers will be turning in guns" is a good line, it's not the issue that got my panties in a bunch.

My best argument was an A to B to C, "Can [Mayor Gordon and the Phx PD] show data that suggests that this would reduce crime? If yes, they should invest the resources to do this every day not just once a year. If not, how can they justify the use of Eight officers in each of five locations (40 total) each earning over-time? This is a political operation by people who've lost their bearings. If this is the best they can do, perhaps we need better leadership. Maybe this shows that they could handle a budget reduction in these tough economic times."

Yeah, too verbose. But my intention was more to educate the Melissa (a real sweetie-pie, by the way) than to get on telebishion. We invited Melissa to shoot at Ben Avery range. That's an almost guarantee that she'll get it aired (the girl with gun thing arouses many producers in the news room), and she'll learn something. The offer is still good, Melissa. :)
 
Wow, sounds like I just found a perfent place to come and buy guns. Also just for the fun of it I think that I'll go find a crap gun and make a couple bucks at the cities expense. lol
 
If I could get away with it - and it is certainly legal, even though I'd be arrested for trying - I'd show up at any buyback and double the city's price on anything. I'd bring about 10K or so and get some great deals.
 
There were several people (from local gun forums) who were cruising the five sites looking for deals. Nobody got arrested. The LEOs tried to say to us that press and our cameras weren't welcome (folks didn't want to be photographed, don't ya know?), but when the real press came, they let them right in, snapped away and interviewed away. After we caught them in the lie, we had free range. Some would run up to cars before the Phx PD could get there. Then the PD started running faster. It was almost comical. When they ran out of coupons, the race was essentially over, and the folks who came for deals won out. Heck, which would you take for your Ruger 9mm carbine? A $100 grocery coupon or $95 cash?
 
I'm curious about whether the gun "buyback" promised "no questions asked" to the sellers?

I'm also curious about whether the "bought back" guns were checked to see if they had been reported stolen or used in crimes?

Finally, I'm curious whether the sellers were given immunity for whatever it was they sold back?

I'd also be interested to know whether the good mayor is at all uncomfortable at the thought that the Phoenix Police Department just might be destroying evidence of criminal activities up to and including murder, and that it is operating what seems to be a thieves market.

I wonder what the talented Melissa Gonzales might think about such things.
 
Roberto,

That's what happens when one visits these parties. Ask some questions, learn some stuff. :)

It was a no-questions-asked deal. The cops said they weren't allowed to dust for prints. They check the serial numbers (long after the depositor is gone). If any guns were stolen, it was not clear if they would get back to the owner. Used in a crime? Evidence chain broken. All that was brought up to them (LEO, Mayor, reporter), with a sheepish shrug from the bureaucrats and a puzzled look from the reporter.

Only the crappiest guns are to be destroyed. IF anyone turns in a Glock, the LEOs keep it. If it is "collectible" by a "museum" there are possibilities in that direction.

...is operating what seems to be a thieves market.

Hey !! You callin' us thieves? :neener:
 
I was there to see how the operation was run, talk to rank-n-file police (most there thought it was a waste of time but were glad to be earning the over-time) and talk to and educate the reporters that came along.

That's pretty standard, except maybe in Chicago and similar cities. Commissioners and Chiefs spouting the gun control line while the actual officers on the street know it's BS.
 
I have issues with the term " Gun Buy Back " . Just how is it a buy back when they did not own the gun in the first place . Not to put too fine a point of it , but the term does imply that the agency/organization buying the crap had a prior claim on it , and that disturbs me , be it guns or leggo toys . They are not buying anything " back " they are in fact purchasing specific tools at a set rate per item .
 
Hey !! You callin' us thieves?

It was a no-questions-asked deal. The cops said they weren't allowed to dust for prints. They check the serial numbers (long after the depositor is gone). If any guns were stolen, it was not clear if they would get back to the owner. Used in a crime? Evidence chain broken.
Well, yes, and also fences. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's actually a rather good business plan, especially when the operators are professionals like the mayor and the police department. They're granting immunity to crooks and murderers and destroying evidence of their crimes in the process, which I think is a pretty smart move that will increase business. It's value added.

In fact I think that I'd be interested in becoming a franchisee for the Phoenix Police Department if they and the good mayor would be interested. I'd extend their business model to cover jewelry, cars, electronics, buildings, planes, boats, trucks, construction equipment, and perhaps even trains if there are tracks going through the city.

Receiving stolen goods is a growth industry, and doing it under color of law is a brilliant idea. The startup costs are minimal: uniforms, badges, tables, bins, and some signs would do it. Labor costs might depend on the going rate in each region, but in the current economic climate I don't think it's necessary to pay more than minimum wage to the uniformed clerks. There could even be a chargeback to each of them for the cost of the uniform.

Ben & Jerry and other anti-gun companies should be happy to provide coupons and other incentives. And with the right connections--here's where the Phoenix PD can be a great advantage--it should be possible to post the addresses of people who own guns that we would be interested in buying back. That's a customized buyback program.

We could even buyback guns to order with that kind of connection. Let's say you have your heart set on a custom model 1911 semi-auto. We simply have the Phoenix PD look around for one. Then we post the address of the owner, with maybe the hours that he's at work, and await the ability to buyback that gun. You would pay money for it, of course, and we'd keep track of your address for our "No questions asked" lifetime warranty, and in case anyone else wants that gun later on. It could be highly profitable to buyback that gun several times.

Do you think that the Phoenix mayor might be interested in buying back some Phoenix police cars under the same terms as the gun buyback, but for cash of course? There'd be a slight delay in delivery time, of course, but well worth the wait. No checks, at least not from the city of Phoenix.

Perhaps the mayor might even be interested in a buyback of the Phoenix City Hall under the same terms? We could give him a great price and throw in a park or two for good measure.

Do the mayor and the city of Phoenix have any other thoroughly corrupt practices that they'd be willing to franchise to individual entrepreneurs? Or are they already doing it?
 
Robert, I sure hope the good mayor and police chief don't read your rant. Introducing that much common sense and truth all at one time just might send them into cardiac arrest.
 
It's actually a rather good business plan,

That was the plan of one attendee. He wanted Phx PD to have a whole bunch of these events because he would supplement his income and build his collection. Imagine, he buys a crappy gun for $20. Turns it in and gets his $100 grocery coupon. Then he uses that to trade on a $250 Ruger MkIII Target. $20 becomes $250. A 12-fold inducement to engage in market fun.
 
Only the crappiest guns are to be destroyed. IF anyone turns in a Glock, the LEOs keep it.

As in, the Glock goes into the PD armory for official department use? Or the gun magically disappears into an officer's personal duffle bag and reappears in the officer's private collection?
 
I am 50 miles south of Phoenix, and wish I was a bit further away - Little L.A. needs to lose the attitude. Ruins it for the rest of us.
 
I once was hired to take an old barn and refurbish it into an artists studio. In the process of hauling out a hundred and twenty years of debris, we found some real junk guns stuff rusted up bad and never worth a great deal in the first place, a couple of .22 single shots, a broken down Iver Johnson 32 revolver, with no hammer, a 16 guage pipe with some wood wired to it, etc. I asked the owner if they wanted any of it, for wall hangings and they were like "ewww no!" so I took it all home, spent about twenty minutes running it thru the blasting cabinet to de rust it, and slathered on the naval jelly to give it that instant parkerize look.

Next gun buy back, i made enough to buy a really nice S&W model 13.
 
As in, the Glock goes into the PD armory for official department use?

As in to the PD armory for "training" and "spare parts."

I remember the Tempe Gun buy back a few years ago. The Tempe City Council donated the use of their hearing room to an avowed socialist ASU professor who was sponsoring the buy back. I asked the LEO at the table what was to happen to the guns. He said, without emotion, "They'll all be melted down." One old gent turned in a sparkling S&W Highway Patrol .357. The cop heart just about fell through is inguinal canal. Said he, "That was the first gun I was ever issued..."

Melted down.

Lots of press that day. And it was air-conditioned.
 
i had a guy at school try to sell me a .38special i did tell the cops just because i know him hes not a bad guy but his family is having a real rough time

he wanted enough to fill his gas tank that was it

i wouldnt have minded doing it then going to a buy back but there was no way i was keeping it being 17
 
Laz,

Interesting question. One wonders if it's limited to "museums." I'll probe more, next time.

I have no idea what you typed. All I did was scroll right down to the picture of the girl.

You, Sir, are weak, weak, weak.

That's a glam shot of her and as one might expect, doesn't reflect her usual appearance. In "real life" she looked like someone you'd have fun slammin' back a few brews or shots of tequila. Saucy. Smart, but needs some seasoning of life. She got peppered by us that day. :)
 
Phoenix PD is the most incompetent, worthless bunch of SOB's I have ever come across. They have plenty of time to do stuff like manning these buy-backs, writing traffic tickets, writing parking tickets, BS'ing in parking lots with each other, and parking out at road construction sites, but when there is real police work that needs done (i.e. possibly hazardous) then prepare to get stuck on a huge waiting list. The city is poorly run and crime-ridden and the city gov't and police are 95% of the reason. I have been in AZ for 15 years and I have watched Phoenix PD avoid their job and botch up everything I saw them put their hands on. I wish I would have gotten some of these events on video, it would make 'Reno 911' look like "COPS" :scrutiny:
 
BTW, Phil Gordon is an asshat. I wish the state gov't would investigate the city operations here, a lot of questionable stuff going on.
 
Robert, I sure hope the good mayor and police chief don't read your rant. Introducing that much common sense and truth all at one time just might send them into cardiac arrest.

That was not a "rant." It was a business proposal. The easy way to recognize a rant is to see if the person driving it looks like Jesse Jackson.

Darn. So somebody in the group had the idea first.

The only guy in the group photo who looks like a gun owner is the fellow holding the paper cup. The rest of them look normal.
 
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