Weapons ban

[DAP90]

On the CCW issue, here in CO, "No guns" signs do not carry weight of law, so if they find out you're carrying, all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse, then they can press trespassing charges.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is true. Check out the link – page 4.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

I see this claim quite a bit. It's in this thread two or three times alone. It used to be true I think but they’re updated and clarified the rule. It has to do with the rights of the private property owner, tenant, etc. Just be aware.

This is a little off topic but there doesn't even seem to be any rules about the signs or placement of said signs. Seems like it could be easy to break that rule accidentally.

 

[macadore]

My mother in law woke up one night to her husband waving a loaded revolver at an empty living room screaming “get out”. When she asked him why he was screaming, he said he was screaming at all those people in the living room. She couldn't convince him there was no one there. He finally decided the people were gone and went to bed. She locked his guns in the trunk of her car. The next day she called and asked me to come get them. A week later he was shooting invisible people with a can of spray deodorant. Everyone was glad we deprived him of his Second Amendment right.

They moved in with us a short time later and all the guns went in the safe. He frequently screamed at invisible people and demanded that I throw them out. He got furious when I told him there was no one there. Finally he made peace with the invisible people and decided they were his friends. People like this shouldn't be anywhere around any type of weapon.

Emerson said, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...” There are times when common sense overrides the law.

 

[Charleo0192]

Too bad you asked about the sign. Now they know that you know. In some instances, I have found an alternate entrance to a place that has one of those signs at the FRONT door, but failed to post them at other entrances. Not having a sign posted is a good excuse for not knowing about the restriction, and thus NOT being liable for knowing about it.

As long as the sign is not hidden, saying you didn't see the sign can be as useful as saying you didn't see the light turn red. I'm sure it's worked for some, but I'm sure there are plenty of others who weren't so lucky.

 

[Taurus 66]

You are welcome, I thought I was kind considering your post about OP

And just out of curiosity, what about my post about what you call "OP"?

 

[CZguy]

Have you every worked with or dealt with alzheimers patients? They can become violent and dangerous instantly.

True enough, but nowadays so can many sane people. I'm just comfortable concealed carrying. My thinking is that I would never pull a pistol while being attacked by someones Grandmother so it should be a non-issue there. But it might come in handy if someones son couldn't pay the bills and decided to kill himself and others. Heck if you read the paper around here, that scenario isn't far fetched at all.

 

[Headless]

In florida at least, it's not legal to carry a firearm in any medical facility where mentally ill patients are being treated. it might not be up to them...just something worth considering.

 

[brboyer]

In florida at least, it's not legal to carry a firearm in any medical facility where mentally ill patients are being treated. it might not be up to them...just something worth considering.

That is not an accurate interpretation of the actual law....

It starts off with "Except as authorized by law ..." guess what? The CWFL statute authorizes one to carry anywhere in the state with a few exceptions. Hospitals and Mental Health facilities are not among them.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Unfortunately, I don't think this is true. Check out the link – page 4

That link just takes you to the same statute that is outlined on that page, which I'll post in it's entirety:

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;


(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.

What part 5 means is that the state does not prohibit the posting of no guns signs. That language exists for clarification because of Colorado's preemption law (A local government cannot arbitrarily make places gun free zones). But the state also does not have a violation code or penalty for carrying against the wishes of a sign unless the sign is in the same place that meets the criteria for part 4.

 

[DAP90]

But the state also does not have a violation code or penalty for carrying against the wishes of a sign unless the sign is in the same place that meets the criteria for part 4.

Where’s NavyLT when you need him?

It would seem that handgunlaw.us disagrees with you; at least as far as I can tell. At the bottom of page 4 of that PDF document it clearly says that no firearms signs have the force of law. I can’t find the penalty either and I don’t know enough about the law to speculate but their interpretation is clear to me. Whatever the penalty if it’s against the law – it’s against the law; even if it’s just a small fine.

I don’t know how they arrived at that conclusion. I’ve tried to determine where they came up with it and the best I can do is section 5 where it says the carry permit does not override the rights of the property owner – and it may be specified elsewhere in Colorado law that the property owner has the right to ban firearms.

You can choose to ignore it but it is possible you would be breaking the law in this case; not just going against the property owners wishes as was the topic of that other thread.

Listen, I’m not judging. I’m not sure where I stand on the ethical debate going on in the other concealment thread but if forced to decide I would lean to the legal interpretations; not the arbitrary whims of the property owner.

If signs do carry the force of law my concern leans more towards the lack of specifications. There’s a restaurant near me where the sign is mounted on a bench in an area where you wouldn’t notice until you were leaving; and only if nobody was currently sitting on it as their torso would cover it completely.

 

[DAP90]

One more thing. I live in Colorado too so I would much prefer it if the signs did not carry force of law. I'm just trying to determine what the rules are. I have no desire to get burned because of a misinterpretation; even if it's just a petty fine.

I get caught speeding every once in a while just like everyone else. I can live with that. I'd rather not have any gun related incidents on my record no matter how minor.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It would seem that handgunlaw.us disagrees with you; at least as far as I can tell. At the bottom of page 4 of that PDF document it clearly says that no firearms signs have the force of law.

I caught it, not sure how they deduced that. That section is the entirety of Colorado's CCW limitations. There is no separate section governing private property signs specifically pertaining to firearms prohibitions, only that if a person is asked to leave for violating such a policy and doesn't, he is guilty of misdemeanor trespass. And that's what part 5 is about: Outlining that stores are not prohibited from having such a policy.

If signs do carry the force of law my concern leans more towards the lack of specifications. There’s a restaurant near me where the sign is mounted on a bench in an area where you wouldn’t notice until you were leaving; and only if nobody was currently sitting on it as their torso would cover it completely.

And so far as I know, states where "no guns" signs do carry weight of law have very specific regulations on where they must be posted, minimum size, minimum font, etc.

It really wouldn't be reasonable if a postage stamp sized sign at the top right corner of the back door could land you in hot water for violating it.

 

[coloradokevin]

Again, simply erecting a sign to prohibit CCW does not carry the force of law in Colorado. MachIVshooter already explained the issues that could arise on private property (ie: owner asks you to leave). Beyond that, your local McDonalds can add a "NO WEAPONS!" sign tomorrow, and it still doesn't make it illegal to have a gun on their property.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I am Not sure why you are angry over using OP

And just out of curiosity, what about my post about what you call "OP"?

 

[Ed N.]

In florida at least, it's not legal to carry a firearm in any medical facility where mentally ill patients are being treated. it might not be up to them...just something worth considering.

Such facilities are NOT in the list of prohibited places for CCW holders. Here's the Florida statute:

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


See? Not in the list. They can post signs, but the signs carry the same legal weight as a store's "No food or beverages" sign.

 

[brboyer]

Such facilities are NOT in the list of prohibited places for CCW holders. Here's the Florida statute:

[snip]

See? Not in the list. They can post signs, but the signs carry the same legal weight as a store's "No food or beverages" sign.

Ed, you have to be careful just relying on 790.06(12), there are several other statutes that regulate where a person may carry a firearm.

Here is the one that another poster was referring to:
394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.—

(1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:
1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;
2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.
(b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.
(2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

But as I pointed out previously, the important words are ..."Except as authorized by law" - in this case the CWFL is the 'authorized by law'.

Other statutes do not contain such language.....so be careful, know the law and how it applies in any particular situation.

 

[Taurus 66]

I am Not sure why you are angry over using OP

I am not angry, not in the least. I do not know what I typed may have had you thinking along those lines. All that was asked is this:

And just out of curiosity, what about my post about what you call "OP"?

 

[Harley Quinn]

Taurus 66
Good...
Still not sure about the issue...


Regards