cracked butt
Member
+1
But the idea of smoking as much dope as one wants while driving seems to be an inalienable right to some people here.
Weapons cache found in traffic stop
- Thread starter MikeK
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+1
But the idea of smoking as much dope as one wants while driving seems to be an inalienable right to some people here.
But you heard a lot of people saying that drug dogs alerting on a car is not a good reason to "violate" the driver's rights with a search, and at least one poster offer that "swerving" was not a legitimate reason to pull the driver over.
Sure. I don't advocate DUI, but don't pull me over for being unable to drive in a straight line and ignore the clouds of smoke billowing from my car. Yeah. That'll work.
Mike
Sure. I don't advocate DUI, but don't pull me over for being unable to drive in a straight line and ignore the clouds of smoke billowing from my car. Yeah. That'll work.
Mike
71Commander
Member
That's not how I read it. Pulling over someone for swerving when they're not, just to "Check them out". This is an excuse to pull over someone who has done nothing wrong. After the Police find out you're not a mass murderer, you get a small lecture to drive safer and are free to go.
Problem is that you didn't do anything to warrant a stop in the first place. Then there is those here that condone such actions as necessary to combat the bad guys.
FNHP35
Member
I don't think anyone has advocated stopping someone without a legal reason. Depending on the particular state's traffic code, you could be stopped for swerving. From reading the small article, there doesn't seem to be a sign that they lied and invented (meaning that the person did not violate the traffic code) a reason to stop the person.
Sure, because:
1. We're just so bored that we simply must pull over random cars for no reason whatsoever.
-and/or-
2. If you see a car that looks hinky and you simply must stop it, it is so terribly hard to get a violation on it that you must resort to just making stuff up. Riiiiiight.
Not saying it doesn't/cannot happen in theory, but let's face it; the vaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast majority of people pulled over for minor infractions like that are simply unable or unwilling to admit that they are capable of making a driving mistake. "He just made it up! I stopped completely for that stop sign!"
Mike
Do you feel the police are on your side?
Joining these threads is like wrestling with a pig, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it. However I can't resist.
I think the basic question is do people think that the police are on their side? I live in a gun unfriendly state and believe that the police one day, if they are not doing it now, will use the tactics used in the "War on drugs" to come after me because I own guns.
I'm not an officer but there seems to be a frightening lack of accountability when there are mistakes made. I can understand wanting to protect your brother officers but why not weed out the lousy ones so you good ones aren't stained also?
So as a High Roader I'm happy the guns were recovered but worried that the stop may have been pretextual. Part of that is that there are so many rules you cannot be sure if you are doing everything correctly and things that everyone does, such as speeding, are crimes.
Also if an officer has to treat every person as a potential life threatening suspect why get mad if people treat every officer as a JBT?
I fear for the future
pete
Joining these threads is like wrestling with a pig, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it. However I can't resist.
I think the basic question is do people think that the police are on their side? I live in a gun unfriendly state and believe that the police one day, if they are not doing it now, will use the tactics used in the "War on drugs" to come after me because I own guns.
I'm not an officer but there seems to be a frightening lack of accountability when there are mistakes made. I can understand wanting to protect your brother officers but why not weed out the lousy ones so you good ones aren't stained also?
So as a High Roader I'm happy the guns were recovered but worried that the stop may have been pretextual. Part of that is that there are so many rules you cannot be sure if you are doing everything correctly and things that everyone does, such as speeding, are crimes.
Also if an officer has to treat every person as a potential life threatening suspect why get mad if people treat every officer as a JBT?
I fear for the future
pete
That time is already here. It is being done on a regular basis in many areas.
Human beings are what they are. Cops are just average human beings who have been given extraordinary authority and power with little or no effective supervision, and relatively low negative consequences for improper conduct. Absolute power...
Supposedly, a Roman Emperor had a law enacted that was posted on a pole 20 feet in the air so no one would be able to even know what the law was. We have a similar situation these days in this country. There are so many nit-picky rules, laws, and regulations we are forced to live by that it is just plain impossible to even know all that exist much less to abide by them all.
What is good for the goose...
But, in the end, this is really a political problem. Vote for the right politicians and we can regain some of our lost liberties. Vote for the wrong ones, and our lose of liberties will continue. Instead of complaining about the cops, why do we let the very people we elect to protect us from LE abuse off the hook completely? Those are the people we should be mad at. They have complete control over LE behavior and can change things.
Coyote3855
Member
My first thought was I'm glad the guy got his guns back. My second was the poor sob had only 29?
Old Dog
Member
I submit that were you an officer, you would truly understand the enormous accountability throughout the entire chain of command when mistakes are made. The fact that law enforcement screw-ups, even in the smallest jurisdiction in remote parts of rural states, can result in immediate nationwide news coverage on the internet, newspapers and television should encourage everybody. This media and citizen scrutiny normally leads to increased law enforcement accountability to its citizen constituency. Strangely, rather than being heartened by the fact that police mistakes are widely publicized, everyone gets all spooled up and begins the usual sport of cop-bashing.
Low blow there. Taking precautionary measures in the performance of one's duties does not render one a jack-booted thug. Do you get offended at the health-care worker who puts on a mask and latex gloves when treating you, even though you know you have no communicable diseases?
I would submit that there is virtually no accountability. There is a lot of oversight that amounts to making sure the I's are dotted and T's are crossed, but the plain fact is that when there is clear LE misconduct, there is rarely any serious disciplinary action taken. It is not unusual for LE to get a letter of reprimand for engaging in misconduct that would be a felony if the perpetrator was not a LEO. And often the letter of reprimand is removed at some point, often a year.
The thing that bugs me is the flat out lying that goes on when something happens. Anyone else filled in blatantly false police reports and they would be charged for that. Cops do it and its OK.
Old Dog
Member
Gee, ilbob, and from what personal experience did you gain all this insight and knowledge of every law enforcement agencies' systems of enforcing professional responsibility and conduct?
Not to pull out the Jack Booted Thug aura, but....
Dare I say, typical? Yes, it worked out OK this time around, but was there really an odor of drugs on the vehicle? (In this case, probably. But....)
My brother used to drive a real beater of a car, purchased second hand: a Dodge Neon which had been in an accident (replaced pannel parts), had rusted over in many places (AZ sun), and had half a dozen 'hippy' decals and college stickers on it (eh, my brother is a bit of a fruit). My brother doesn't "do drugs". He'll drink alcohol occasionally, but that's about it.
He's taken this car back and forth between SD and AZ two or three times now (ie both ways), and he has been stopped by police on three of the trips so far - once due to an out tail light, and twice due to an officer being at one of the rest stations with a dog, looking for drugs.
I'm guessing he was passing through a drug traffic corridor, because each time the dog 'smelled drugs' and the officer hastled my brother and his girlfriend (one of the times) for close to an hour, taking appart his car and luggage (he was moving/traveling for vacation), and generally treating him as if he were already guilty. No drugs whatsoever were found (thank God - it was a second-hand car, afterall), but the dog did take a liking in a bag of cookies.
And, I've heard that police can make their dogs 'detect' drugs pretty much at whim. It seems like a fairly convenient system for police, where a dog is trained by reward to detect drug odors, giving them the incentive to detect them. I realize there are dog log books and what have you to help mitigate this kind of thing, but an omission from a log book wouldn't allow for the detection of such anomolies.
Dare I say, typical? Yes, it worked out OK this time around, but was there really an odor of drugs on the vehicle? (In this case, probably. But....)
My brother used to drive a real beater of a car, purchased second hand: a Dodge Neon which had been in an accident (replaced pannel parts), had rusted over in many places (AZ sun), and had half a dozen 'hippy' decals and college stickers on it (eh, my brother is a bit of a fruit). My brother doesn't "do drugs". He'll drink alcohol occasionally, but that's about it.
He's taken this car back and forth between SD and AZ two or three times now (ie both ways), and he has been stopped by police on three of the trips so far - once due to an out tail light, and twice due to an officer being at one of the rest stations with a dog, looking for drugs.
I'm guessing he was passing through a drug traffic corridor, because each time the dog 'smelled drugs' and the officer hastled my brother and his girlfriend (one of the times) for close to an hour, taking appart his car and luggage (he was moving/traveling for vacation), and generally treating him as if he were already guilty. No drugs whatsoever were found (thank God - it was a second-hand car, afterall), but the dog did take a liking in a bag of cookies.
And, I've heard that police can make their dogs 'detect' drugs pretty much at whim. It seems like a fairly convenient system for police, where a dog is trained by reward to detect drug odors, giving them the incentive to detect them. I realize there are dog log books and what have you to help mitigate this kind of thing, but an omission from a log book wouldn't allow for the detection of such anomolies.
That may be true, but what of the departments and areas where searches like this are not mistakes - that is, they're accepted by both the police and the citizenry as common practice, despite the legality of the matter? I'm thinking of urban and leftist areas of the country.
(which isn't to say that this specific situation wasn't warranted. i can't judge. but I do know I've gotten a moving violation from an officer who was traveling well over 65 in a 35 zone, almost resulting in me hitting him - god bless reflexes - and I've gotten a speeding ticket for going 92 in a 75 when I was going 78 or so, having just passed by another driver going oh, about 92...)
That's it, this one is too far gone to save....
Jeff
Jeff
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