orangeninja
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2003
- Messages
- 3,117
“And when they see the muzzle size of this .45, they’ll definitely know that they’ve had a gun pulled on ‘em.” Said the gun shop gun guru showing his trusty polished 1911 off. How many times has this scene taken place in gun shops, on gun ranges or while just showing off weapons on the internet? I have been party to or directly witnessed at least 3 armed confrontations and known several other people who have been shot and have shot at others in the line of duty. Do you know how many times I or any of those others noticed the caliber of the weapon being used at the time? 0% of the time, nada, not once. A white Cadillac drove by while me, my brother and some friends were waiting to get in a night club. A black male wearing a white “wife beater” T-shirt was hanging out the back door shooting a shotgun at a red dodge neon full of Hispanic looking guys who all had pistols shooting back at him. Guess who was caught right in the middle? If you said a terrified bunch of white kids who had no business being there at that moment in time, you’d be right. We were so busy trying to find adequate cover that I never did get the makes and models of the guns being used.
A second time a friend and I were walking my girlfriend home when a guy in a van pulls a pistol on us, it had a stainless slide and in hind sight, MAY have been a Ruger, but to be honest, I failed to see the caliber, but it was definitely “fill your pampers time”. Even more silly was the time my former partner was robbed while working an armored job with a .22lr, but he said to him the gun was the biggest thing he’d ever seen, as it was aimed about 9 inches from his eye. (The perp was caught and it was a .22lr single action revolver, 6 inch barrel, not very “tactical”, but effective for it’s purpose). I had an officer who used to work for me, before switching shifts who shot and killed a man who was trying to kill him with some type of Jennings jam-o-matic .25, yet he was terrified at the time.
At no point in any of the above examples did anyone use a specific gun for the “intimidation” effect. Newsflash, all guns are somewhat intimidating and the guy who isn’t intimidated by a .22lr will not be intimidated by a .45 either. Using a gun to intimidate is what thugs and robbers do, not CHL holders and cops. So are you thinking of buying that certain gun because of the intimidation factor? Save your money.
Badges, they’re shiny like jewelry, they are certainly the “in” thing in movies and when a bad guy sees a badge on T.V. he almost always is scared off or intimidated to the point of cooperating. I’ll share an embarrassing story. I was in a bar when a fight broke out. My wife was friends with the girl working security at the door who could not control the situation, she was literally being man handled. When the girl saw me she pointed the bad guy towards me and said, “You see that guy there? He’s a cop and you’re going to jail if you don’t leave right now!” Now first of all, I didn’t have a gun, didn’t have a radio, didn’t have a baton or mace. I did have my little brother who is a corrections officer in Florida with me (and one of the meanest fighters I’ve seen) but I still felt naked. The guy walked straight up to me and said, if you’re a f***ing cop let me see your badge. Now I felt compelled to show my I.D. as I had been trained. Do you think this guy was the least bit intimidated? Nope, he immediately tried to attack me and his friends wound up bodily removing him from the bar. Funny, the badge didn’t intimidate him; it was just like someone rang the “fight bell”. As a follow up, this guy died about 3 months later after stabbing 3 officers and being shot to death. What do you think about badge intimidation now?
Handcuffs in the movies are always sterile objects. The suspect either puts his hands behind his back or the cops throw him down and he puts his hands behind his back. On T.V., the suspects don’t yank away when getting cuffed. They don’t use the handcuffs as a weapon and they don’t use the cuffs against the cops, except for one particularly entertaining Jackie Chan movie. Handcuffs, like a badge cause a psychological reaction in people who have been in them before. Often not the reaction you would think. Like the badge, those handcuffs can “ring the fight bell” and it’s on. I don’t recommend any private citizen EVER try to handcuff a bad guy alone. I know of one instance where it took 4 very large men to handcuff just one woman, what do you think your chances are against a seasoned street thug one on one? Lastly, what if you do get the handcuffs on the bad guy and he takes off running down the street away from you (this happens) and gets hit by a car? Whose liable? Handcuffs do not intimidate, they escalate.
Mace is really a good idea. I like the pepper foam stuff myself. Mace generally causes no permanent damage, though a perp may cause permanent damage to himself once being hit with it. For instance, he attacks, you spray, and he runs and is hit by a car. That is a defensible action, more so than the handcuffs are because mace does not demonstrate an arrest, merely a preventive measure, you did not take away a suspects liberty or free will, you simply protected yourself.
I bought pepper foam for my wife, who used it on a man who sexually assaulted her sister in a bar, it gave them enough time to get away and notify the authorities. You will note that she did not use mace to threaten or intimidate the suspect, he never saw it coming, which is what makes it the most effective. When I was hit by pepper foam I had about 2 to 5 seconds to attack a foam strike bag in academy (I saw it coming) before the effects took me out of the game (they really took me out too). That mace kicked my butt hard, but not everyone is affected the same. If my wife had displayed the mace then used it, the perp would have seen it coming and braced for it, afterwards he would have a couple of seconds to knock her down and do physical violence upon her because he prepared his mind to get hit. Getting surprised by it is a whole ‘nuther deal, by the time you figure out what it is, it burns. Mace is a great tool, but crappy intimidator.
Batons are useful police tools, but illegal in many states for private citizens to use. An Asp baton for example is not the “club” that most people think it is. It is designed to allow for pinpoint strikes by a trained professional in order to disable a perp with as little damage as possible. Hit the wrong place and you can cause serious injury or death or if you hit another kind of wrong place, it’ll have little affect and he will simply take it away from you. Now that he has your baton, what do you think he will do with it? Now a baton does have something of an intimidation effect, like a gun, but if it doesn’t work, the baton also signifies “fight bell” and it’s on full tilt, ready or not. The baton should not be used to intimidate, which is why many officers hold the baton next to their leg, hiding it from view until needed. This prevents an attacker from bracing for impact and keeps from escalating a situation. If the baton should be used it should be surprising, quick and deliberate. It ideally will interrupt the perp’s OODA loop and end the confrontation quickly.
The display of weapons and badges does not work (like you think it will) in all occasions but it DOES change the dynamic of all occasions. In the occasions where it does work, such as with a gun, great, however should it not work, be prepared to fire. A cops #1 tool is a radio with backup on the way, not a gun.
Displaying a badge will get you killed if used to intimidate and you cannot back it up.
Displaying mace will counter the chemical’s effect because the bad guy will see it coming and if he has experience with this stuff, may develop an attack plan to take you out quickly.
Handcuffs almost never intimidate, yet surprisingly, they can certainly lead to the fight of the century.
Lastly, a baton may be intimidating, but it is more effective when shielded until actually used. Weapons may have marginal intimidation, with a nod going to the gun. But generally it is not the weapon that is so intimidating as it is the intent of the user. Don't count on "tools" to intimidate.
Just a quick rant.
A second time a friend and I were walking my girlfriend home when a guy in a van pulls a pistol on us, it had a stainless slide and in hind sight, MAY have been a Ruger, but to be honest, I failed to see the caliber, but it was definitely “fill your pampers time”. Even more silly was the time my former partner was robbed while working an armored job with a .22lr, but he said to him the gun was the biggest thing he’d ever seen, as it was aimed about 9 inches from his eye. (The perp was caught and it was a .22lr single action revolver, 6 inch barrel, not very “tactical”, but effective for it’s purpose). I had an officer who used to work for me, before switching shifts who shot and killed a man who was trying to kill him with some type of Jennings jam-o-matic .25, yet he was terrified at the time.
At no point in any of the above examples did anyone use a specific gun for the “intimidation” effect. Newsflash, all guns are somewhat intimidating and the guy who isn’t intimidated by a .22lr will not be intimidated by a .45 either. Using a gun to intimidate is what thugs and robbers do, not CHL holders and cops. So are you thinking of buying that certain gun because of the intimidation factor? Save your money.
Badges, they’re shiny like jewelry, they are certainly the “in” thing in movies and when a bad guy sees a badge on T.V. he almost always is scared off or intimidated to the point of cooperating. I’ll share an embarrassing story. I was in a bar when a fight broke out. My wife was friends with the girl working security at the door who could not control the situation, she was literally being man handled. When the girl saw me she pointed the bad guy towards me and said, “You see that guy there? He’s a cop and you’re going to jail if you don’t leave right now!” Now first of all, I didn’t have a gun, didn’t have a radio, didn’t have a baton or mace. I did have my little brother who is a corrections officer in Florida with me (and one of the meanest fighters I’ve seen) but I still felt naked. The guy walked straight up to me and said, if you’re a f***ing cop let me see your badge. Now I felt compelled to show my I.D. as I had been trained. Do you think this guy was the least bit intimidated? Nope, he immediately tried to attack me and his friends wound up bodily removing him from the bar. Funny, the badge didn’t intimidate him; it was just like someone rang the “fight bell”. As a follow up, this guy died about 3 months later after stabbing 3 officers and being shot to death. What do you think about badge intimidation now?
Handcuffs in the movies are always sterile objects. The suspect either puts his hands behind his back or the cops throw him down and he puts his hands behind his back. On T.V., the suspects don’t yank away when getting cuffed. They don’t use the handcuffs as a weapon and they don’t use the cuffs against the cops, except for one particularly entertaining Jackie Chan movie. Handcuffs, like a badge cause a psychological reaction in people who have been in them before. Often not the reaction you would think. Like the badge, those handcuffs can “ring the fight bell” and it’s on. I don’t recommend any private citizen EVER try to handcuff a bad guy alone. I know of one instance where it took 4 very large men to handcuff just one woman, what do you think your chances are against a seasoned street thug one on one? Lastly, what if you do get the handcuffs on the bad guy and he takes off running down the street away from you (this happens) and gets hit by a car? Whose liable? Handcuffs do not intimidate, they escalate.
Mace is really a good idea. I like the pepper foam stuff myself. Mace generally causes no permanent damage, though a perp may cause permanent damage to himself once being hit with it. For instance, he attacks, you spray, and he runs and is hit by a car. That is a defensible action, more so than the handcuffs are because mace does not demonstrate an arrest, merely a preventive measure, you did not take away a suspects liberty or free will, you simply protected yourself.
I bought pepper foam for my wife, who used it on a man who sexually assaulted her sister in a bar, it gave them enough time to get away and notify the authorities. You will note that she did not use mace to threaten or intimidate the suspect, he never saw it coming, which is what makes it the most effective. When I was hit by pepper foam I had about 2 to 5 seconds to attack a foam strike bag in academy (I saw it coming) before the effects took me out of the game (they really took me out too). That mace kicked my butt hard, but not everyone is affected the same. If my wife had displayed the mace then used it, the perp would have seen it coming and braced for it, afterwards he would have a couple of seconds to knock her down and do physical violence upon her because he prepared his mind to get hit. Getting surprised by it is a whole ‘nuther deal, by the time you figure out what it is, it burns. Mace is a great tool, but crappy intimidator.
Batons are useful police tools, but illegal in many states for private citizens to use. An Asp baton for example is not the “club” that most people think it is. It is designed to allow for pinpoint strikes by a trained professional in order to disable a perp with as little damage as possible. Hit the wrong place and you can cause serious injury or death or if you hit another kind of wrong place, it’ll have little affect and he will simply take it away from you. Now that he has your baton, what do you think he will do with it? Now a baton does have something of an intimidation effect, like a gun, but if it doesn’t work, the baton also signifies “fight bell” and it’s on full tilt, ready or not. The baton should not be used to intimidate, which is why many officers hold the baton next to their leg, hiding it from view until needed. This prevents an attacker from bracing for impact and keeps from escalating a situation. If the baton should be used it should be surprising, quick and deliberate. It ideally will interrupt the perp’s OODA loop and end the confrontation quickly.
The display of weapons and badges does not work (like you think it will) in all occasions but it DOES change the dynamic of all occasions. In the occasions where it does work, such as with a gun, great, however should it not work, be prepared to fire. A cops #1 tool is a radio with backup on the way, not a gun.
Displaying a badge will get you killed if used to intimidate and you cannot back it up.
Displaying mace will counter the chemical’s effect because the bad guy will see it coming and if he has experience with this stuff, may develop an attack plan to take you out quickly.
Handcuffs almost never intimidate, yet surprisingly, they can certainly lead to the fight of the century.
Lastly, a baton may be intimidating, but it is more effective when shielded until actually used. Weapons may have marginal intimidation, with a nod going to the gun. But generally it is not the weapon that is so intimidating as it is the intent of the user. Don't count on "tools" to intimidate.
Just a quick rant.
