Weird 870 Malfunction

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huduguru

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I went out to fire a few rounds of buck and slugs this morning
in my 870 Express HD and while shooting some Winchester
1 0z. slugs I fired one slug and pumped the gun and pulled
the trigger and I got a click instead of a bang. Well as it
turned out, it didn't even chamber a round. I just racked it again and
it fired. The shotgun fired just fine with the Win. 00 buck I was
using. I checked the gun and the latches are working properly. I'm
also sure I didn't short stroke it because the slug I fired before the malf.
I ejected properly.

My question is, I believe that the round in the mag slid forward under
the heavy recoil of the slug and was temporarily "pulled" away from
the latch, therefore losing it's chance to be pushed onto the carrier.
Is this possible? I know the Police 870 uses a heavy magazine spring
but I'm not sure if this is why. My mag spring seems to be pretty stout
but I'll get a stronger one if possible. Oh, and by the way, the gun is
all stock with the Remington 2 shot ext. Thanks if anyone can shed some
light on this.
 
It's possible to pump a gun far enough to eject the fired hull and still stop the stroke short of releasing the next round from the magazine, depending on the mechanical timing of the gun itself and the briskness of operation. There are a lot of other possible explanations as well, but a short stroke- even if it wasn't obvious to the shooter- is still IMO the most likely.

Shoot more, shoot a LOT more, and see if it happens again. And always, ALWAYS rack the gun hard- all the way back, hard, then all the way forward. It ain't gonna break.

hth,

lpl/nc
 
Thanks for the reply. I haven't totally ruled out the short stroke. I didn't
mention in my original post that I did fire a few more slugs through it after
the malfunction and it functioned flawlessly. I guess based on that it would
seem to be operator error. It just confused me that after firing the slug I
ejected the empty. After playing with the action a little(unloaded) :uhoh:
I can see that it is indeed possible to eject a round but not take the action all the way back.
 
IF this was not shooter-induced, then sticky shell latches, weak mag spring / sticking follower would be where I'd start. Many of the Express guns seem to have burrs and rough spots inside that slow down latches and followers.
FWIW, I shoot a ton and I just loaded an empty chamber on Monday. It was as Lee described. I pumped far enough to eject but not far enough to trip the latch. Fortunately it "felt" odd and I was able to pull the trigger and cycle the gun in time to still break the bird.
I had a bunch of trouble in this area when I first switched from shooting all 3" 870's to my only 2 3/4" gun. The ejector is shorter on the 2 3/4" gun and bumps the shell out earlier and I had apparently been starting the pump forward as soon as the empty shell was tossed or, in the event of a misfeed, I'd "back-up" the stroke to try again and dump a live round on the ground. The 3" gun's eject at nearer full open.

Mike
 
Here's another thought: Winchester Super-X slugs may be slightly fatter or use some type of material that "grabs" internal parts more than it should.

I've just been cycling various brands of slugs through my stock Saiga-12, and with both of my magazines, the damned Winchester slugs won't feed when loaded into the Saiga with the bolt closed. The rounds get depressed a little bit into the magazine after loading, and don't pop up high enough for the bolt to grab the rear of the shell when I cycle the bolt (or even open it and LEAVE it open, for that matter, until I smack the bottom of both mags hard). The Federal slugs feed just fine, as well as all the birdshot (Remington and Federal) and buckshot (Federal) I've tried.

Just another example of how important it is to use a bunch of the ammo you're planning to use for self-defense BEFORE you might need it for self-defense... :p
 
I'm gonna go ahead and agree that one can easily short stroke the pump and eject the fired shell but fail to chamber the next round...the spent hull comes out first, not at the same exact time, so there is always that small chance that you'll send the action forward in between the chucking and the loading. Like Lee says, rack it, RACK IT HARD, it won't break. :)
 
Huduguru,

Either, A Time Warp Continuum or Short Stroke. Had the rounds been sitting in the weapon prior to use was this your first 5 rounds threw it that outing?
My 870 Express and others I've handled are all real honest, the only problems I've encounterd have been of this operators origin.
 
I've come to the conclusion that I did short stroke it because all of the slugs
fired after that incident chambered fine. I just had to get used to the recoil
of those slugs. :eek: I think I'm going to get a heavy duty magazine spring anyway just to make sure those shells in the mag aren't jumping. Or maybe
I'll just sell the Express and get the 870 Police. :) The only thing I've done to this 870 is put on a Limbsaver recoil pad (awesome I might add), I replaced the locking safety with a standard and put a short foreend on it. I don't
want to put to much money into it, or I may as well get the Police. Awesome shotgun though. Thanks for the replies. Long live the 870!!!!!!!!
 
Knowing that this is an old post, I will say that it is very possible to get a failure to feed with a very fast action operation. It is called a "fast action speed malfunction".

I just attended Brian Hoffner's Ultimate Shotgun course at the Law Enforcement Training Camp in Zachary, La. After experiencing two FTF with my nearly new 870P, I watched Brian shuck an 870P six times and get three shots. We were ejecting empties over six feet, and were NOT short stroking them.

We were told to simply slow down our operating speed on the guns, and had no further FTF. Obviously, short stroking can get an empty to eject and not actuate the shell latch. However, if you are operating the gun at light speed, and ejecting empties in the next county, you are NOT short stroking the gun.
 
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