Weird gunshow rifle...questions.

[mattw]

So I was at the gunshow this past weekend and I see the most bubba'ed rifle I have ever laid eyes on. It is an AK with an underfolding stock, looked to be in ok condition, nothing amazing. There were two things that stood out: The woodwork on the handguards and the $1499 price tag.

As I gave a disgusted look to this weapon that had "KILL OR BEE KILLED" (not a typo on my part) carved into the handguard, I asked the guy at the table: "Why is this thing $1500?" He looked at me like I had just said his kid was ugly or something and told me that it cost that much because it was a "real rifle meant for real soldiers to use." I did not care at that point because he was obviously the stupidest dealer at the show or just wanted to be an ass hole and not answer my questions.

So what could possibly make an AK with ugly handguards worth $1500? It was not full auto, only two spots for the selector. It was used but looked to be in decent condition. I've seen under folders on gun broker for $700 or $800 and thought that was WAY too much, but $1500? How can he justify that?

 

[Hanzerik]

Don't know. I saw two AK's (Semi autos) at a gun show up here that were going for about the same price. The only answer they gave me was that they were "Pre-ban". Big deal, the ban has been over for a few years, there is nothing special about them when you compare them with new manufactured weapons. Maybe since they were a class III dealer, they thought they can charge that much. They had some nice silencers and full-autos, but their prices were just too high IMHO.

 

[mattw]

So whats the big deal about pre-bans? Are they somehow more easily converted to full-auto than the post-bans?

 

[JWarren]

Matt,

I was at that gunshow, and saw the exact same rifle.

I also was as shocked and disgusted as you were about that price.


It wasn't the rifle--- it was the shop. A couple years ago I was at the same gunshow, and talked to that exact vendor when he was selling a thumbhole stock Mak-90. I asked him why he was selling it for close to 1,000. His response?

Well, you have to understand... this rifle isn't some com-block crappy repro. This is an ACTUAL military rifle that was converted to semi-auto for legal sell in the US. This is the exact rifle that has been used in war.



Uhm.... OK. And monkies are about to start flying out of my butt.


Last time I went to that gunshow (same time you did) I actually had to go back out to the jeep and get my firearm to carry over my shoulder--- not because I was interested in selling it-- but because I got SO SICK of vendors treating me like I knew NOTHING about firearms and making outlandish claims.

The idiotic statements such as the one I got regarding a M91/30 Mosin Nagant stopped once it was apparent that I DID have a clue. (The vendor expalined to me that a Mosin in 7.62x54R is SO much more powerful and had longer range than a 30-06 because it is a military rifle. I suppose a 1903 springfield is much more powerful than a say... Remington or Winchester in 30-06, too.)


I swear, I can't stand people who will lie to you straight to your face.

John

 

[atblis]

Well

I can't figure out if they're lying, or really just that stupid. It's hard to tell sometimes.

 

[mattw]

JWarren, what day/time did you go? I was there from about 1000 to 1245 on Saturday. I hate the shows here in Mississippi... everyone price gouges on everything. $800 garands that look like they haven't been cleaned since WWII; $400 S&W 642s, $600 AKs; $350 for a bubba'ed parkerized, beat to hell Winchester '94. It makes me sick!

 

[madmike]

Heh. The Lake Cty IL show, guy had a knife on the table for $150.

"Toledo Steel Bowie Knife." 1/8" Stamped steel, naugapleather sheath with rivets, approximately rectangular and with a cheap loop, stamped guard, just like any other $10 piece of trash.

So I asked him how he figured $150.

"It's from Toledo, Spain, where they've been making knives for 500 years."

Well...no. They've been making them for 2300...except they stopped for quite some time this century with Franco in charge, except for a few domestics.

I asked who the maker was? Armaduras? Marto? Etele? Aitor? Muela?

"I don't know, but my father bought it directly from the factory."

Ah, the guy in the market with a cart is now "the factory."

I suggested that $25 might be closer.

He sneered and said, "I know for a fact that's a $75 piece of stag on it."

I said, "Five bucks from Koval."

"No, I know better than that."

He ticked me off. I pulled out the Koval catalog, and then slapped down one of the Muelas I had, which retailed at $30.

He didn't sell it that I'm aware of. But he obviously thought that by being from "Toledo" it was something special.

Actually, modern Toledo for the most part are crap. You're better off with China. Really.

 

[mattw]

I try to see it from the dealer's point of view and I can sort of understand how they come off as snobbish most of the time. With so many idiots out there that know nothing about guns but just spout off BS, you might start to feel like you really are better than anyone else. But that does not justify ripping people off and misrepresenting your stuff.

 

[Heavy Metal Hero]

I love it when I walk up to a table to inquire about a rifle and the vendor treats me like I am some ignorant kid (Being 19 years old, but looking younger), when I probably know a lot more about firearms than he/she does.

It must be true what they say. In order for these guys to stay in business, a sucker really is born every minute.

 

[madmike]

My 9 year old daughter walks around the show with her dealer's badge and her pink AR over her shoulder, and for some reason, everyone treats her as a knowledgeable professional.

 

[hagar]

One of the reasons I don't go to gunshows anymore, or mudwrestle with pigs. They are a lying bunch of thieves for the most part, is only in it for the money, and I'd rather do business with real gun enthusiasts like we find on this board.

 

[Roadwild17]

I used to work @ the great southern gun & knife show. We did get a bunch of BS from people all the time. I remember one time a guy tried to offer me $35 for a Robbie Dalton (sp?) knife which we had marked for $185. I just looked at him with a "how stupid are you" look for a second & then told him "Sir, I couldn't do that if I wanted to." And he walked away.

People like that do make you feel like everyone is a dumba** or just hoping you stupid, and there are a lot out there.

 

[madmike]

Thanks, Hagar. My friends and I love you, too.

Are you one of those who wants a $400 Cold Steel for $175, and wants a "deal" because you're a good guy? And "no UN tax" as well?

I can cast just as many aspersions on the clientele, but I try instead to ignore the bad and deal with the good.

 

[madmike]

And if we were "only in it for the money" we wouldn't be driving 1980s vintage vans and trucks.

 

[Hoppy590]

i only go to the tables i remember from the last time. and i only remember them because of either staff or prices. i can deal with a know nothing staff if the price is low, or i dont mind paying a little extra to buy from some one whos opinion i trust. but any time anyone refers to something as a "para trooper model" or makes claim that only " X" were ever made then the plans were destroyed and the workers shot i just ignore them. if i dont know enough about the gun to buy it with out having ever talked to staff, i dont buy.

And if we were "only in it for the money" we wouldn't be driving 1980s vintage vans and trucks.

i do drive a 1980's vintage car. so you may not have the money to give a great deal to every joe, but (if i didnt know any better) i dont have the money to get screwed on a "para trooper" m44.

 

[NeoSpud]

I'm constantly disappointed at gun shows around here. Occasionally, yes, I'll find a few good tables with guys who really know what they're talking about, and aren't trying to sell me a Garand reweld for $700. I'm young, I've been burned, and I'm trying as hard as hell to learn all I can (and I admit, most of what I know comes from the History Channel, pretty much the only TV channel worth watching). Still, even a kid like myself knows when "somethin' ain't right"

Just last week a guy tried to sell me a PASGT vest from the 80's for $400 used. I have a hard time telling people "no thanks," but hell... how stupid did he think I was?

I'm thankful for the guys who know their stuff, but in the past 2 years I've yet to walk out of a gun show more than twice and feel satisfied. For the record, this is coming from Nashville, TN, and as far as I know we've only got the Bill Goodman and Bob Pope (my favorite of the two) gun shows.

 

[madmike]

Heh. Bill Goodman can't book a show around here.

Actually, after the two I set up at, he's another I'd never give the time of day to.

I can't speak for everywhere else, but Indiana shows are honest, earnest and cheap. And the "paratrooper M44" bull is as much customers as dealers.

I've had someone come past my table to sell me a "genuine" Japanese sword that still has the "made in china" sticker on it. I've seen the "Katana brought back with a stamp from the Royal Arsenal" on it. I've seen the Colt SP1 for $1600. I've seen the "Rare" Buck Folding Hunter with a nail slot, because everyone knows Buck doesn't put nail slots on their knives.

And yes, I've had a dealer try to sell me an 80% RSP for a Browning 1919 for $400, and claim that anyone selling cheaper is selling "junk."

Guess what? Go shopping for cars or stereos and tell me you found more honest dealers.

 

[cracked butt]

"real rifle meant for real soldiers to use."

I guess you aren't a r33l soldier, so you wouldn't understand.

everyone price gouges on everything. $800 garands that look like they haven't been cleaned since WWII; $400 S&W 642s, $600 AKs; $350 for a bubba'ed parkerized, beat to hell Winchester '94. It makes me sick!

Didn't you know that a sloppy blueing job and a crappy coat of Tru-oil doubles the price of a firearm? When you figure in the cost of such skilled labor, the cost of hacksaw blades and belt sanders, you should feel priviledged to pay so little for such magnificent works of art.

 

[plexreticle]

Guys that sell military type rifles seem to be the worse about stuff like this. I had some dork vendor try to tell be about lock time on an AR and and was reffering to the mass of the bolt carrier being the biggest factor.

My buddy and I looked at each other with a *** look and walked away.

 

[JWarren]

JWarren, what day/time did you go? I was there from about 1000 to 1245 on Saturday. I hate the shows here in Mississippi... everyone price gouges on everything. $800 garands that look like they haven't been cleaned since WWII; $400 S&W 642s, $600 AKs; $350 for a bubba'ed parkerized, beat to hell Winchester '94. It makes me sick!

Matt, I was there on Saturday, but I think I just missed you. I got there about 1:00 PM and stayed til close. Right at close, I finally found a decent rifle--even if it was "bubba'd" I picked up a all-matching Finnish Mosin Nagant M28/30 from a Doctor in Hattiesburg. It was/is drilled and tapped, but all in all, I love the thing.

I gotta agree with ya on the sad state of MS gunshows.


John

 

[The Deer Hunter]

JWarren, what day/time did you go? I was there from about 1000 to 1245 on Saturday. I hate the shows here in Mississippi... everyone price gouges on everything. $800 garands that look like they haven't been cleaned since WWII; $400 S&W 642s, $600 AKs; $350 for a bubba'ed parkerized, beat to hell Winchester '94. It makes me sick!

At the gunshow I was at down in FA this past Febuary $800 was a bargain for a garand there. I couldn't find one for under $1200.

 

[Correia]

As a dealer that always has some tables at the gunshow, I absolutely LOVE the idiot/scumbag dealers. They just drive more business my way.

 

[JWarren]

Correia,


Yep... you beat a path to the tables ran by persons that show the decency that you have always shown on this and other forums.


John

 

[ceetee]

Every gunshow I go to, I make it a habit to not ask questions unless I see something that I specifically want to look at. I always have a few items that I'm actively looking for, and if anything else catches my eye, I'll ask to see it. I rarely ask the vendor for his opinion. What's he gonna tell me? That his stuff is junk? Nah. If I see something I like, and the price is a little high, I'll try to get him to go down some. I decide what price I think is fair, and I won't pay something that I think is unfair. If a dealer wants to meet my price, then we have a deal. If not, then we don't. No hurt feelings here. Last two shows, I walked away with new guns. (And I walked away happy...)

 

[MD_Willington]

he he... went to a show in Spokane years back...

One dealer had VEPR AK's "On Sale" for ~ $2K... back when robarm had them in the $500-600 range and in stock...

Plenty of Jerky, Beanie babies and Paladin Press books too + the local .GOV employee looking for votes...