Well, I guess I failed.

[armoredman]

I was told that my 200 yard group with my vz-58 rifle wasn't good enough, that I had to fold a piece of paper in half, fold up the corners, then attach that at the neckline of the B-27 target. That was my target zone. You see, I was told a rifle round isn't effective anywhere below that zone. OK, I've never shot a rifle at a human, and hope I never do, but I did find that a bit odd. Whatever, gives me a reason to shoot at 200 yards again.

Like this, I assume. This is the first 200 yard group target, reused, that's why it has taped holes already. I recycle.



Happy day, we have security guards qualifying next bay and nobody on the 275 yard range, so out to the berm it goes. The bay above the berm is the other 75 yards. Good thing I remembered the camera this time.

Good grief, that's kinda out there, isn't it?



I'm gonna hit that with this?



All groups fired were done exactly like this, no benchrest, seated, I don't know if you want to call this supported or unsupported. That Israeli sling sure is comfortable...



OK, fire five, hold at head of B-27. I only have the one target, so I photographed it in place...carrying a camera and tripod 200 yards is interesting...

Can you see the new holes?



How about now?



Not too shabby, but one clean miss you can barely see over the targets left shoulder.

Let's try again.



Trudge, trudge, sheesh, who's stupid idea was this? Oh, wait, mine...



Uh oh, which holes were the first and second? Let's guess, and then mark the third group with II signs. Eh, I guessed wrong on one of group 2.



Ya know, I can live with that, seriously. Load is Hornady 123 gr FMJ over 24 grains Accurate Arms #1680, COAl 2.17, CCI primers.
So, I'm sorry, friend, I guess I failed your 200 yard test, I didn't hit the paper "neckerchief" once. Guess I'll never make a rifleman, oh well.

 

[Snowdog]

Good job, especially with a red dot. When I had an Aimpoint red dot on my FAL, I found I couldn't do much better than I could with iron sights, depite the smallish 3mil dot.
I suppose that has something to do with my ever-so-slight astigmatism.

Your rifle is refreshing to look at; you don't see too many of those at the range.

 

[rcmodel]

Have you considered adjusting the red-dot sight so you are zeroed at 150 yards?

The 7.62x39 shoots flat enough you would be able to hold dead on at 200 and still only be 3 1/2" low.

Hold on the triangle to hit it from muzzle to 200 yards.
Hold on the head to hit it at 250 yards.

rc

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

That's odd armoredman, I count fourteen effective hits there.

 

[asiparks]

I'd say you did more than ok at 200yrd,un-benched with no magnification, I can't see a target at that distance without the aid of a 9X optic....

 

[Uncle Mike]

Seriously.....whoever told you that was....

So, a torso hit at 200y with a 123gr projectile isn't going to incapacitate the enemy...right!

 

[C-grunt]

Thats good shooting. Definitely good enough for government work.

Where is that range at?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Good hits, all.

Why are you shooting in that awkward, unusual position on the bench? Why aren't you prone beside the bench? Or kneeling and using the bench to support the fore end?

IMHO, the bench is just to zero the rifle and to verified its zeroed. Once it's zeroed/verified then get away from the bench and develop/maintain your practical shooting skills (offhand, kneeling, supported kneeling, prone, supported prone (using a daypack), modified prone, etc.).

Cheers!

 

[armoredman]

Elzy Pearson memorial range in Casa Grande, AZ. Free and unsupervised, plus cleaned up every morning by the city. They spent some money improving it not too long ago, that federal grant money. I go early morning weekdays, A), nobody else out there, B), it IS unsupervised, so weekends are when the yahoos come out.
BUT, I never find beer bottles/cans out there.
rcmodel, I have it almost dead on at 100 yards, this target is two groups from last trip, (that is 100 yards, disregard the 120.).



I could try the 150 yard thing.

Thanks, Snowdog, I think I have the only vz-58 in this little city. I always get the same ting, "Got an AK, huh?" By the time I finish explaining, they have that glazed eyes, deer in the headlights look...

Shawn, I have used that position for years, feels quite natural to me. I need a rug to lay on before I go prone, and a buddy to watch my back.
You could say this was just to verify it was zeroed, as those 15 rounds are the first rounds I have fired at 200 yards since qualifying with the M-14 at Mare Island in 1988.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Oh yeah, past 100 yards, a bad guy with a torso full of bullets like that will just laugh at you and heal up in a matter of minutes. So I guess you have no choice but to junk that thing (or just give it to me).

I'd say that it was "ADVICE FAIL", not marksmanship fail. True, hitting that triangle would be very effective with 1 shot, but so would hitting above it, and so would hitting below it.

 

[308win]

Look at it this way; if the BG has the energy left to take off in the opposite direction he is less of a threat with every step. If he comes at you your group is going to get better and better until he gives up the ghost (which ain't gonna be long in coming). Most of those hits should have him seriously thinking about going in the opposite direction if he is able.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Great photos. I am very, very jealous of your local shooting range. We don't have much if anything that good here, whether public or private.

 

[armoredman]

Warmer down here, too. This is where you want your winter home when you retire - less than 1/4 mile up the road from this range is a private trap club with RV hookups...

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Looks like whoever gave you that advice was presuming your B-27 was wearing plates capable of stopping 7.62x39.

 

[grubbylabs]

Nice shooting, I have a friend that lives out there. I tested for the fire department quite a few years ago.

I am going to join or out door range this year, no that I have a couple guns. Cant wait to get out there and try some long range shots with my new 308. They have one that is out to 400yrds

 

[Heavenlyfire]

Rifle shots ineffective to the torso??? Not according to some of the dead bodies I have seen. That is some awesome shooting in my opinion, just about every one of them would have killed him.

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // I'd say you got em.

 

[Handgunner]

You see, I was told a rifle round isn't effective anywhere below that zone.

I know a couple of crackheads too but I don't believe much of what they say.

 

[armoredman]

Oh, I know, I just think that such a thing is hilarious. Hard to type tounge in cheek. Besides, what a great reason to try another 200 yard shot.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Not bad. I agree with those who suggest moving your zero range out.

I run a 200 yard zero with a Kobra reflex on my AK. At 100 yards, you're 4 inches or so high, and at 300, you're about a foot and a half low.

And that triangle between the nipples and Adam's Apple is a good guide line, but I don't buy a .31 cal FMJ to the sternum is going to be all that ineffective. The point of "The Triangle" is the massive arteries that supply blood to the brain are located in that thoracic cavity. A hit in that location is likely to take the fight out of someone very quickly.

 

[_N4Z_]

I got to handle one of those vz's last weekend. They do seem lighter then the AK. Didn't shoot it though.

That is good shooting and as somebody already said, good enough for gubment work.

The first two strings looked like you were bracketing the target... Were you ever a gun-bunny (artillery) in the military???

 

[Big Bill]

Sorry for the post.... I can sure be ignorant sometimes. My apology Armoredman. I guess I'm just too old to understand some things.

 

[dom1104]

You'll never make a rifleman with that rifle. I guess if you're satisfied with that kind of poor performance, more power to ya. What'll you do when the target is at 500 yards and moving? Personally, I never want anyone with an AK, SKS, etc., getting closer than 300 yards from me in a combat situation. But, If you're so called group is typical, I may lower my effective range expectation of the 7.65X39 from 300 yards to 200. I think at 300 yards I'd be relatively safe. A 30-30 is more accurate that that gun at 200 yards. I aleays wondered why towl-heads in the middle east couldn't hit anything. Now I know why - AK47. I hate to be so negative. Maybe, I just don't get it? I'll just stick with my 300.

Big Bill I gotta say it. *** dude, ***.

The guy comes online, posts some great pics, and looks like he had a great time and you gotta trash him?

Uncool.


I think those are awesome pictures, a great range a very cool gun and I think that is a FINE group for an EOTECH at those ranges.

Kudos to you Armoredman. Dont pay attention to the big-talkers.

 

[armoredman]

Ok, Bill, you do that.
BTW, it's not an AK, but that's alright, I didn't expect you to read the whole thing, too long winded I'm sure.
Have a nice day!

 

[Floppy_D]

Hot damn, not bad at all!! I went to state twice as a JROTC cadet in air rifle, and I feel like I can shoot a rifle pretty well, but I can not shoot worth a squat with a red dot. Good on you for keeping COM hits at distance. For fun, you oughta try irons to see how different the group is. That's what convinced me to shoot irons rather than red dots at anything over 50 yds.

Okay, the group ain't 1moa, but it's certainly battlefield effective. IMO, a red dot is not my prime choice for 200 yds. But you seemed to manage.

What'll you do when the target is at 500 yards and moving? ... in a combat situation...

Per the OP:

OK, I've never shot a rifle at a human, and hope I never do

I guess if you're satisfied with that kind of poor performance, more power to ya ... You'll never make a rifleman with that rifle.

Great attitude. Where's your 200 yard target, so we can armchair-quarterback it?