Well...it almost made 500 rounds

[deacon]

Shooting my stock Springfield GI Saturday and was doing great until the hammer hooks broke and the hammer would not stay cocked. Really stinks as I was finally begining to feel confident in the pistol. I had been using it for CCW but that will have to be interrupted as I send it back to Springfield. But that also kindof stinks because they are only going to put another MIM part in it that will more than likely break at some point. Probably going to install a C&S ignition set in the near future...glad I was only shooting at paper...

 

[psychophipps]

Wow

The very concept that anyone with a reputation (and pricing structure) like Springfield has manufactured a firearm where the firing assembly (as in the part that makes it go "Bang!") has not only failed but broken in under 500 rounds is very disconcerting.

Mental note: Thinking about a Springfield = Buy a Kimber instead.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

 

[mattw]

Kimber uses MIM parts, too.

I've got a springfield 1911 that my father gave me for christmas about 6 years ago and it was my first pistol and my first 1911. Now I think my next serious pistol is going to be a colt WWI repro that I will use for target shooting and the occasional trek into the woods, but mostly I use and still will use my springfield to do all the dirty work that you wouldn't want to use a "pretty" gun for. My springfield was bought used, I am pretty sure that was before they used MIM stuff (1994).

The next handgun I will buy after the Colt WWI repro is going to be a springfield GI, but I plan on making that a cheap WWII repro. So I will be replacing most of the MIM stuff.

 

[the pistolero]

Thinking about a Springfield = Buy a Kimber instead.

For what it's worth, though, Springfield has a lifetime warranty, while Kimber's is a 1-year. I have a Springfield GI 1911 as well, and aside from a bad extractor (with about two weeks between the time I shipped it to Geneseo to get the extractor replaced and the time I got it back), I've had no problems as of yet with over 1,000 rounds. People are going to have different experiences, of course, but don't give up on the Springfield just yet. And no, I did not get paid for this. My own experience has just been very good with Springfield, and more of their products will be in my future.

 

[Zerstoerer]

All 1911's are overrated & outdated.
Buy Glock or HK next time.

 

[Old Fuff]

Rather then send it back to S.A. for another MIM replacement (which may be O.K., but I doubt that you will ever trust it) why not replace the hammer with a true high-carbon steel one? Look in a Brownell's catalog (www.brownells.com) for a number of choices, and put the money you'd spend shipping the gun back and forth to partially pay for the hammer.

Also you can sometimes find USGI surplus parts at gun shows, but be sure you know what you're buying.

 

[deacon]

Talked to Springfield and they are covering shipping...which they should.

I was going to send it in a while back to have the canted front site repaired but never got around to it. This way two issues taken care of with one trip.

Fuff...I am going to eventually replace ALL of the small parts ( starting with ignition ) with real steel units...appreciate the input.

Zerstoerer...never really warmed up to plastic pistols. They work and work well mind you, just not my thing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Broke

Are you sure that the hammer hooks broke? Not likely that both would let go at the same time. More likely another issue. Failure of the sear to reset...Disconnect problem, etc. May be a simple thing, like the sear spring or a burr somewhere...like on the top of the disconnector paddle, hanging the sear.

Zerstoerer...

 

[Old Fuff]

MIM Parts in 1911 Style Pistols.

Everyone might as well wake up and smell the coffee ...

All of today's 1911 platform pistol makers use MIM (metal injected molded) parts to some degree. Depending on the maker's quality control these are good, bad and indifferent. The manufacturers are out for the cost savings, and presume that failures will be rare. They also are sure that most of the buyers are interested in big-boy toys rather then serious weapons. That may or may not be true, but they're willing to take the risk. You may think otherwise.

The fact of of the matter is that to get an "all real-steel" gun to the original specifications you need to go back to pre-1970 Colt pistols or one made by a USGI contractor. The alternative is to spend a considerable amount of money to replace the questionable parts, - and even then the critical extractor won't be made of the correct spring steel alloy.

Or if your budget won't stand up to this start looking at other makes and models of pistols with a proven reputation for reliability.

But don't try to fool yourself into thinking that the guns being made today are equal to those made in the past. Today the manufacturer's rule is to cut costs any way they can.

 

[deacon]

Tuner....

Pulled the hammer out and BOTH hooks are gone. In fact, there was a small sliver hanging on the grease on the disconnector, that from what I can tell is/was one of the hooks. The other one probably broke off previously but the pistol continued to function ?

Fuff....

The coffee does indeed stink....

 

[1911Tuner]

Broke

Deacon...Ouch!

Yeah. It'll function with one hook. If the hammer is real steel, it may function for years that way. MIM is a crapshoot. Good MIM is actually pretty tough. Bad MIM is worse than pot metal.

 

[deacon]

I asked the nice lady at Springfield if the hooks letting loose was a common problem and was told this is the first one she has heard of... still saving my pennies for one of Bill's 24/7 ignition sets.

 

[deacon]

Fuff or any others for that matter...

What is the cutoff serial number that would be considered if one were to shop for one of the pre-1970's produced Colt 1911"s ?

If this journey begins to yield diminishing returns, I may just sell off the GI and begin to keep an eye out for a pre-MIM pistol...thanks.

 

[TX1911fan]

ANY gun can malfunction, 1911, Glock, HK or otherwise. Most of us have far more rounds than 500 through our Springfields and have had not even a hiccup. Any manufactured item can have a defect, and it's comforting to know that SA stands behind theirs for life.

 

[Old Fuff]

TX1911fan:

... and it's comforting to know that SA stands behind theirs for life.

TX1911fan is correct in saying that any pistol (or machine for that matter) can have a part fail. But the probabilities of that happening is going up as 1911 platform manufacturers keep cutting quality in search of cost cutting.
Consequently those who carry or use these guns in a weapon context should give the facts of life a good, hard look, regardless of the manufacturer's warantee. Deacon had it right when he said:

...glad I was only shooting at paper...

Deacon:

What is the cutoff serial number that would be considered if one were to shop for one of the pre-1970's produced Colt 1911"s ?

Government Model = 332600C or any USGI 1911A1 .45 pistol
Commander Lightweight = 60277LW
Super 38 = 202188 / CS001001 to CS002800

 

[TX1911fan]

1911 manufacturers are not the only ones using MIM parts or otherwise looking to lower costs. Find me ANY gun manufacturer who hasn't had a gun come back for a defect or breakage. I'm positive you can't.

The advantage of the 1911 platform, as I see it, is that replacement of MIM parts is extremely easy to do for an amateur. I have no experience with Glock, Sig or HK, but I know that I cannot replace the internals on my Walther P99. If I wanted that done, I'd have to send it to Smith and Wesson or to a gunsmith. On the contrary, with my SA GI, it took all of a couple hours to learn how to completely strip the pistol, and took around $40 to replace all the MIM with "better" parts.

I put "better" in quotes because I am certain that companies such as S&W, Springield, Kimber and others would not use MIM if it was as bad as Old Fuff and others on this board say it is. The majority of SA guns contain at least some MIM, and if it was so bad, their reputation would be trashed (same goes for Kimber and S&W). These companies have not spent the last 100 years building a great reputation only to ruin it to save a few dollars. I replaced the parts mainly to do it, for the learning experience. I have not replaced any parts on my TRP, a much more expensive gun, but one that contains some MIM parts.

 

[Ala Dan]

The Springer WW-II G.I.'s

Greeting's All-

I think that this is a isolated incident, and not an everyday occurrence.
I own 2x Springfield WW-II G.I. replica's and a Springfield MIL SPEC; with
absolutely 0 malfunctions of any type in all three. All of them are bone
stock weapons, just as they came from Springfield Armory. As has been
noted, MIM parts are seen throughout the industry; and not just limited
to any one manufactuer'er. Folk's parts breakage can happen to the very
best of 'em~!

 

[Supertac45]

Les Baer

Baer does not use MIM parts in his.

 

[1911Tuner]

Warranty

Quote:

>it's comforting to know that SA stands behind theirs for life.<
************

Which may have been a very short warranty period had he been firing at something that was firing back.

TX1911fan wrote:

>>Most of us have far more rounds than 500 through our Springfields and have had not even a hiccup<<
**********************

How about a 91A1 Colt that's at about 140,000 without a hiccup.

Search for "Springer through the Wringer" for the read on my attempt to destroy a Springfield GI Mil-Spec that I did about 2 years ago. Warning: Not for the squeamish.

As much as I love the 1911 platform, I have to concur with Fuff and others that...well...they just ain't what they used to be.

Supertac...Betcha I can find an MIM or an investment cast part in your Baer.

 

[NMGlocker]

The advantage of the 1911 platform, as I see it, is that replacement of MIM parts is extremely easy to do for an amateur. I have no experience with Glock, Sig or HK, but I know that I cannot replace the internals on my Walther P99. If I wanted that done, I'd have to send it to Smith and Wesson or to a gunsmith.

The P99 is extremely easy to dissasemble. The only tricky part is the roll pin (you need a press to remove it correctly). The Glock is about the easiest pistol made for complete dissasembly, a single 3/32" punch and 2 minutes later it's done. The H&K USP is much trickier, the trigger group and hammer have a few parts that require *just perfect* alignment before they go back together. The Sig P series is fairly easy to detail, but once again the hammer/sear is a bit tricky. If you can detail strip a 1911, any of the others are a breeze.

 

[Correia]

Zerstoerer, if you don't have anything useful to add, don't bother to post.

There are five gallon buckets full of broken Glocks at the Federal Law Enforcement Traning Center in Georgia.

Anything can break. Deal with it.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

Ouch! Correia, you must be a 1911 fan. I want to be one. I've just seen too many problems with them to trust one. A full 66% of the 1911s that I've shot had problems. Multiple problems. Jamming, front sight falling out, rear sight falling out, dismal accuracy and all of this in expensive name brand guns. I don't understand why 1911 fans aren't Hi-Power fans. I've never had a problem with mine and even JMB considered it the superior design. The 1911 is the better looking gun, but still.....

 

[statelineblues]

I bought my Colt Combat Commander (all steel) new in 1982 - could not count the number of rounds thru it. The only 2 things I ever did to it was to replace the sights with Meprolight night sights and put on a beavertail safety. It has been my CCW, duty weapon, home defense gun. Although I have other handguns, and have had several 1911s (including an SA 9mm), the Colt's the one I trust.
If you like what you have, get the best replacement parts for it.

 

[ugaarguy]

Action Can Do,

Correia was not defending any particular pistol. He was encouraging proper etiquette on this forum. The person's post which he adressed did not provide anything constructive to the thread; therefor it needed to be adressed. IIRC Correia likes just about any reliable pistol - and as a dealer he can get pretty much anything he wants. He's also been gracious enough to pass on his pricing to us, the members of THR, through many groups buy. That includes two group buys on STI pistols just this year. Is he making any money off of this - no. Why two STI group buys? Because folks here who couldn't get in on the first one asked for another. Mr. Correia kindly opened a second group buy; going on right now. You made a personal attack, and an unwarranted one at that - not in keeping with THR rules. I've done it too, edited my post, and apologized. I'll advise you do the same as I'd rather hear it from a fellow member than one of the moderators.

 

[SAG0282]

This one incident is hardly a trend, but it makes me worship my SIGs that much more. Four of them over years and thousands of rounds and not a single breakage.

Keep us posted if you can though........a Springer GI is highly desired by me........it will hopefully be my next acquisition, and sooner. See that's what happens when the g/f makes you watch Band of Brothers........lol. As if I needed a reason.