Were Clinton gun laws applied prospectively?

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rajb123

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As I recall, when the Clinton's took office, new gun laws were enacted and the new law prohibited so-called assault rifles, big-clipped magazines, so-called cop-killer bullets, etc. These laws expired during the Bush years; right?

Anyway, how did the Clinton law handle ownership of these newly prohibited items that were legally in the hands of citizens before such bans were enacted? These items were not confiscated by Uncle Sam; right?

My interest lies in the hunch that these restrictive laws could be on the way back due, in part, to the recent tragic events in Arizona.

Thx.
 
As I recall, when the Clinton's took office, new gun laws were enacted and the new law prohibited so-called assault rifles, big-clipped magazines, so-called cop-killer bullets, etc. These laws expired during the Bush years; right?
Yes, although I think armor piercing handgun ammo regs went back further than that. They put a sunset provision in the bill that said it would expire in 10 years. Otherwise they wouldn't have gotten enough votes to pass it.

Anyway, how did the Clinton law handle ownership of these newly prohibited items that were legally in the hands of citizens before such bans were enacted? These items were not confiscated by Uncle Sam; right?
They were grandfathered in. You could still buy and sell them (at highly inflated prices), you just couldn't buy any newly made ones unless you were law enforcement or military. Basically the same thing that machine gun owners have been dealing with since 1986 (except the Hughes amendment had no sunset).
 
raj...I think what you need to focus on though it the battle to make sure that does NOT happen again. That experiment failed miserably. They had nearly a decade to show it would work and it did not. We cannot allow our rights to be taken from us again.

IMO, we need to focus on fighting these types of attacks on our personal freedoms not giving up territory and accepting we can keep what we got but can't buy more.
 
I think what you need to focus on though it the battle to make sure that does NOT happen again. That experiment failed miserably. They had nearly a decade to show it would work and it did not. We cannot allow our rights to be taken from us again.

If that was a motion, please consider it seconded.
 
There is a somewhat complex set of regulations about armor-piercing ammo, but the misnamed "Cop Killer" bullets aren't outlawed by that name. No steel-cored pistol bullets is the main part of the deal.

The feds cannot constitutionally take anything without paying fair market price; it must be bought--per the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment.

Cities play the game of, "Turn it in or take it out of town or move away from here if you want to keep it," as regards certain Evil Weaponry. But they can't pass an ordinance authorizing confiscation.

If future sales of something are prohibited, those previously-legal items now in one's possession are allowed to remain with the owner. All the so-called Assault Weapons ban did was raise the price of original AKs and SKS rifles. Okay, so it ended drive-by bayonettings...
 
My interest lies in the hunch that these restrictive laws could be on the way back due, in part, to the recent tragic events in Arizona.

I think your hunch will turn out to be wrong. I think we will see a few weeks of talking, filing the McCarthy stuff, the Blair Holt stuff, something from Lautenberg, all of which will die in committee and that will be that.

If you watch, this happens every single year. It's EXTREMELY rare that a single event is the catalyst for gun legislation.

JFK was really the last time a single incident directly impacted gun laws in a negative way.

You can find just as many gun incidents that impacted guns in a positive way. Here in Texas for example we had a shooting in a restaurant and as a direct result of that we got concealed carry.

It's just too soon to react with doom and gloom, there is much that remains to be seen about the effect of this on our laws.
 
As I recall, when the Clinton's took office, new gun laws were enacted and the new law prohibited so-called assault rifles, big-clipped magazines, so-called cop-killer bullets, etc.

Not exactly. First it was not just Clinton though he was quite anti-gun and did many things, this legislation was passed by Congress. Don't let the hundreds of participants many of which are in office longer than a president can be off the hook because it is easier to blame the executive.

Second they didn't take place right when Clinton took office. Clinton was in office nearly two years before the AWB legislation. In fact Clinton was in office almost as long as Obama has been now before the legislation was passed.

Third "assault rifle" is a real term for a type of rifle, "assault weapon" is something entirely different, a legislative term that includes pistols, shotguns, things in the wrong caliber even if single shot (like in CA) and gets random additions when new ones are passed.
Some of the "renewals" in Congress almost considered them any semi-auto firearm ever used by any Federal LEO agency, or the military in the past or present, or any firearm based on such a design. All they would have had to do to ban anything is issue it to some officers. Then the ATF really would ban whatever they wanted.:neener:

"Assault Weapon" is an amorphous term, it mutates and changes to include more things over time, and really has no exact definition. That is one of the big tricks that works in favor of the antis, because people think they actually know the definition and consider whether they agree or not with that more limited definition they envision.

These laws expired during the Bush years; right?

Yes. But that was not the plan. The plan was to permanently renew the assault weapon ban when it expired. That could have happened, but the Republicans had control of Congress. They had both the House and the Senate, and while Bush was in office. Though I recall something about Bush being willing to sign it if the legislation reached his desk.
Most of the antis are Democrats, and while there is some strong anti Republicans, and some pro gun Democrats, big anti-gun legislation is typically the result of primarily Democrats.
Many of the Democrats were in favor of reinstating it, but lacking the votes they didn't want to be too vocal about such a hot topic issue and it sunset.
Had it sunset in in 2007 though instead of 2004 it would have been immediately renewed, quite likely permanently.
As it was though the years that had elapsed since the sunset and dramatic constituency pressure had shifted some of the fence sitting and "pro-gun" Democrats away from trying to pass a new one once they did regain Congress.
It may be easy to "renew" something already in place, even permanently, with minimal notice and fiasco, but is a lot harder to reinstate something after some years had elapsed and millions of Americans had come to change their minds and realize the doom and gloom was not reality.


The feds cannot constitutionally take anything without paying fair market price; it must be bought--per the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. Assets including homes, property, vehicles, and all manner of things are seized by government with no compensation whatsoever in the war on drugs.
In fact it is a primary motivator of Law Enforcement, known as asset forfeiture and is one of the largest sources of extra funds and cool toys for state and federal LEO.
They basically get to steal what people involved in drugs have.


At the state level California banned various Assault Weapons, and they became illegal. They briefly opened a registration that let some keep theirs if they went through the hoops and went into he state database of being in possession of such evil things (and police can see who has them when they look them up which can result in different treatment,) but only briefly, and those that didn't or missed that brief window could not legally own them.
There was no grandfathering per say, and those that did manage to register them and keep them can never sell or transfer them to another regular person in the state. They are essentially worthless in California, and cannot even be left to heirs in the state.




An additional important consideration.
Assuming there is both grandfathering, and that grandfathered items can then also be transferred to other people if there was any similar new legislation is a major assumption.
They could not be grandfathered, or they could have a mandatory buyback like Australia, or they could be grandfathered but illegal to ever transfer to another person like in California. Making their monetary value almost nothing.

I think your hunch will turn out to be wrong. I think we will see a few weeks of talking, filing the McCarthy stuff, the Blair Holt stuff, something from Lautenberg, all of which will die in committee and that will be that.


I do think legislation is unlikely, especially if the constituents make it clear they won't tolerate it, and the House is currently mainly Republicans, so the Senate and the President would have to work hard to make something without the support of the House.
However there is added concern because unlike some other tragedy, there is not that many people in Congress and so when a Congress member is murdered it is going to strike close to home. They will be keenly aware of the missing coworker. Even if she survives her mental state or a realization of her inability to perform her job the same or at all could also be keen reminders to coworkers, perhaps even stronger than had she died because they may go through that realization together.
 
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The young criminal in the Arizona shooting incident used a 32 round clip for his legally obtained Clock semi-auto 9MM pistol. Some liberal media claim he is nuts because he was rejected by the US army, was booted from high school and college and wrote some ramblings on Facebook.

So let's think like a gun-grabber and consider how they might react to this opportunity to stop gun sales and seize guns and ammo from the citizens.

1. Ban large capacity auto magazine clips
2. Allow all parties to enter "do not sell" sanctions in the NICS database based on their personal view of whether a citizen is "nuts"
3. Ban gun sales to adults who are under age 30
4. Place sever restrictions on the purchase of ammo, gun powder, primers, etc.
5. Ban sales of semi-auto "weapons"
6. Require potential buyers of guns to get an inital and annual subsequent assesments of sanity from licensed professional head shrinkers.
 
bad actors- not gunowners

one bad apple don't make the whole barrel bad,some nut job who has mental problems,shouldn't be able to buy a firearm,if he was dishonorably discharged from the armed forces,he was a prohibited person,the same as felons,where d he get the gun?where was the secret service?,my uncle earl was a secret service agent for f.d.r. I bet if he was on the job he would have beat tne shooter to the draw he was fast... my prayers are with them all.:(
 
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Yes. But that was not the plan. The plan was to permanently renew the assault weapon ban when it expired. That could have happened, but the Republicans had control of Congress. They had both the House and the Senate, and while Bush was in office. Though I recall something about Bush being willing to sign it if the legislation reached his desk.


Bush promised to sign an extension of the AWB. In March of 2004, the US senate voted to extend the AWB for a period of ten years: The vote was 52-47.

Ten Republican senators voted to extend the AWB and six Democrats voted against the extension.

Speaker of the house Hastert refused to schedule a House vote on AWB extension. You can thank Speaker Hastert for standing firm: There is a very good chance that an extension of then AWB would have passed the US house.

BTW: An "assault weapons" ban is still in effect in a few states.
 
So let's think like a gun-grabber and consider how they might react to this opportunity to stop gun sales and seize guns and ammo from the citizens.

1. Ban large capacity auto magazine clips
2. Allow all parties to enter "do not sell" sanctions in the NICS database based on their personal view of whether a citizen is "nuts"
3. Ban gun sales to adults who are under age 30
4. Place sever restrictions on the purchase of ammo, gun powder, primers, etc.
5. Ban sales of semi-auto "weapons"
6. Require potential buyers of guns to get an inital and annual subsequent assesments of sanity from licensed professional head shrinkers.

Now lets think like a rational person:

Ban Murder.
 
The feds cannot constitutionally take anything without paying fair market price; it must be bought--per the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment.

As Zoogster points out, maybe, maybe not. Assuming they gave you "fair market value" however, once outlawed the fair market value for a magazine might be based on scrap metal prices.
 
Bush promised to sign an extension of the AWB. In March of 2004, the US senate voted to extend the AWB for a period of ten years: The vote was 52-47.

Ten Republican senators voted to extend the AWB and six Democrats voted against the extension.

Speaker of the house Hastert refused to schedule a House vote on AWB extension. You can thank Speaker Hastert for standing firm: There is a very good chance that an extension of then AWB would have passed the US house.

Also, while the Senate did vote to amend an AWB on to S.1805 (a bill protecting firearms manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits), once they had done this, the NRA pulled support for S.1805 and the bill went down in flames.

When Sen. Feinstein tried again, the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Bill Frist "filled the tree" (an obscure procedural move) to prevent such amendments from being added to another bill.

As for gun legislation in the 112th Congress, I don't see much gun control happening. The House has something like 240 NRA A-rated Representatives. That means in order for any gun control to pass, either the NRA has to be on board with it or you have to flip at least 20+ A-rated NRA Reps.
 
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