Wet vs. Dry tumbling - effect on rifle accuracy

[Nature Boy]

I got out to the range this weekend for the first time in weeks and decided I'd see if there was a difference in accuracy between wet and dry tumbling on my .308 loads.

I recently bought the FART to process pistol brass because the range pick up is generally very dirty. This is where I think wet tumbling makes sense, however, I decided to see how it did on my Lapua .308 brass.

I'll say this, from a shinny stand point I see no appreciable difference between wet and dry, but, it does clean the primer pockets and inside the case. This is where I was curious. Does cleaning the inside the case remove some of that beneficial carbon in the neck that's supposed to reduce bullet seating friction. My conclusion:

1. I noticed no difference in felt resistance when seating, nor was their a difference in OAL after
2. A few of the case's mouths were dented. Does wet tumbling cause this? Anyone else see that?
3. Regarding accuracy fired 2 groups, 5 shots each at 200 yards. The difference between wet (left) and dry (right), dirty necks, clean pockets, shinny, shinny-er, etc.....nada


Bottom line. I'll wet tumble for range pick up pistol brass but think I'll just stick to dry tumbling for my rifle brass. It's just easier

 

[Rule3]

But super surgically clean brass looks nicer with your Boa!

BLING!

 

[mdi]

This is a new issue for me, I never heard of anyone testing shiny brass vs ??? brass for accuracy...

But the results may show some new reloaders that shiny, virgin looking brass isn't a necessity...

 

[Walkalong]

All most of us did with 6PPC brass for our bench guns was wipe off the outside, brush the necks, and use a primer pocket uniformer on them. Shot pretty well. No time for tumbling of any kind between groups.

 

[Load Master]

Thanks for sharing your results Nature Boy. Nice shooting too. I have to say I still like the shiny look so I'll continue my ways of wet tumbling, though I know it isn't needed.

 

[Sunray]

How you clean your cases makes no difference whatsoever. Wet tumbling just adds the drying step.
Range pick up pistol brass has the same issues range pick up rifle brass does. You have no idea what has been done to it or how many times.

 

[GBExpat]

... 2. A few of the case's mouths were dented. Does wet tumbling cause this? ...

No.

Thanks for taking the time to share your results.

 

[Nature Boy]

I never heard of anyone testing shiny brass vs ??? brass for accuracy

Me either, but I do read from time to time about concerns over removing the carbon from the necks or the pros and cons of cleaning primer pockets. I figured what the heck, let me take a little time and see for myself

The other thing I found satisfying about this test is these are 2 different batches of ammo, not just cleaned differently. This makes me confident in the overall consistency of my loading process

 

[Nature Boy]

Range pick up pistol brass has the same issues range pick up rifle brass does. You have no idea what has been done to it or how many times

Not true.

I can look at .223 and .308 and see if it sill has a crimp or primer sealant. Also, pistol brass (in my case, 9mm) seems to fill up with dirt and trash easier than bottle neck rife cases due to its shape.

But hey, what the hell do I know. You obviously have better eye sight than I do as it seems you can see what I pick up off the ground at my range in Texas all the way from Canada.

 

[TheDomFather]

I have switched from dry to wet for tumbling now. I decap all brass with a universal decapping die, wet tumble cleans primer pockets and I dont have to do them by hand. Performance improvement not likely but clean primer pockets makes me mentally happy

 

[Blue68f100]

Me either, but I do read from time to time about concerns over removing the carbon from the necks or the pros and cons of cleaning primer pockets. I figured what the heck, let me take a little time and see for myself

The other thing I found satisfying about this test is these are 2 different batches of ammo, not just cleaned differently. This makes me confident in the overall consistency of my loading process

I've heard of this too, but most are using a Wash&Wax as the soap and not Dawn. The wax part helps things slide. I do the wet SS cleaning mainly for it to clean the primer pockets for me on my rifle brass. For hand gun I mainly use the std tumbler with walnut media and corncob mix. If they are really grungy I will run them through the wet system. I use a universal deprimer setup on AP w/ brass feeder. So all I do is dump them in and run the 1 arm bandit.

 

[hdwhit]

Nature boy wrote:
I can look at .223 and .308 and see if it sill has a crimp or primer sealant...

The crimp is a sure sign, but some people (myself included) apply primer sealant during the reloading process so it can be misleading.

 

[Nature Boy]

The crimp is a sure sign, but some people (myself included) apply primer sealant during the reloading process so it can be misleading.

Well, you need to stop doing that!

 

[hdwhit]

Nature Boy wrote:
Well, you need to stop doing that!

It's the way my reloads are distinguished from the other reloaders around here so I've got to keep doing it to keep up "appearances."

 

[Reno380]

In cleaning the brass, I just got myself my first tumbler. It looks like the vibrator tumbler from HF tools, I bought some corncob bedding to try first, seemed to clean range brass I have quite a bit, I ran it for about a half hour to 45 minutes. I saw some youtube videos where some put nu shine in the mix as well, would this not contaminate the shell for powder? What mixtures does others here use? I'm trying this, but thinking of buying some walnut to try, could corncob and walnut be mixed? And just one more, how much media should I be using? I filled it to the first washer on the all thread bolt from the bottom up, I guess that would be about half full?

Thanks, Reno

 

[Rule3]

Not true.

I can look at .223 and .308 and see if it sill has a crimp or primer sealant. Also, pistol brass (in my case, 9mm) seems to fill up with dirt and trash easier than bottle neck rife cases due to its shape.

But hey, what the hell do I know. You obviously have better eye sight than I do as it seems you can see what I pick up off the ground at my range in Texas all the way from Canada.

It's the way my reloads are distinguished from the other reloaders around here so I've got to keep doing it to keep up "appearances."

That's why they invented Sharpie Permanent markers.

 

[TheDomFather]

In cleaning the brass, I just got myself my first tumbler. It looks like the vibrator tumbler from HF tools, I bought some corncob bedding to try first, seemed to clean range brass I have quite a bit, I ran it for about a half hour to 45 minutes. I saw some youtube videos where some put nu shine in the mix as well, would this not contaminate the shell for powder? What mixtures does others here use? I'm trying this, but thinking of buying some walnut to try, could corncob and walnut be mixed? And just one more, how much media should I be using? I filled it to the first washer on the all thread bolt from the bottom up, I guess that would be about half full?

Thanks, Reno

First I would suggest tumbling for 2 -3 hours and you should get better results, I use the frankford arsenal polish but many people use Nu Finish, Does it contaminate? Yes, no, maybe Im not really sure but what I can tell you is my cases are shiny clean and my rounds fire perfectly fine. I have since switched from dry tumbling to wet tumbling with steel pins, warm water, 1 TBSP of Dawn soap and 1 TBSP of lemi shine, This cleans way better than dry tumbling and cleans inside and outside the case as well as the primer pocket provided you decap first. (use a universal decapping die as you dont want to run a dirty case into your sizing die)

My vibratory tumbler is Frankford Arsenal as well as my wet tumbler. At first glance they dont look like the highest quality products however, I find there products work great and are very cost effective.

 

[murf]

nature boy,

how do you dry your wet-tumble cases?

murf

 

[TheDomFather]

nature boy,

how do you dry your wet-tumble cases?

murf

I use a case dryer made by Hornady, Frankford Arsenal makes one too and many people just go and buy a food dehydrator at walmart. The case dryer works great 20 - 30 mins is all you need! They run around $50

 

[mdi]

In cleaning the brass, I just got myself my first tumbler. It looks like the vibrator tumbler from HF tools, I bought some corncob bedding to try first, seemed to clean range brass I have quite a bit, I ran it for about a half hour to 45 minutes. I saw some youtube videos where some put nu shine in the mix as well, would this not contaminate the shell for powder? What mixtures does others here use? I'm trying this, but thinking of buying some walnut to try, could corncob and walnut be mixed? And just one more, how much media should I be using? I filled it to the first washer on the all thread bolt from the bottom up, I guess that would be about half full?

Thanks, Reno

I reloaded for 12 years before I got a tumbler as I just wiped each case with a solvent dampened rag as I inspected it (nope I ruined no dies or chambers, and yep, I could spot defects). I started with pet bedding and soon got to experimenting with different media and after trying every thing from beach sand to glass beads, pet litter (Good Mews cat litter worked good), wood chunks and mebbe 20 others, I settled on corn cob blast media http://www.drillspot.com/products/499763/econoline_526020g-40_40_lbs_blast_media which works better than pet bedding. Some add auto cleaner/wax to their media, just a cap full or so, and this will aid cleaning and leave a light film of wax to retard tarnish. I squirt some Turtle wax/cleaner in my media occasionally for keeping tarnisd down and it is not enough to contaminate the powder...

I started with walnut bedding and it works well but walnut and corn cob blast media is more consistent in size and hardness. Yep mixing is OK and my media is prolly composed of walnut blast media, corn cob blast media, some hard resin media. I don't require shiny, virgin looking brass so this mix works quite well for me and gives clean semi-shiny brass (the only brass I like to be really bright and shiny is my Garand brass and my 45 ACP brass. Easier to find in the dirt, rocks and stuff at my "range"). From reading about cleaning/tumbling brass I believe it's purely a personal thing. Pristine brass doesn't reload nor shoot any better than "brown" brass and reloaders seem to develop a method and style that suits them best ...

 

[Nature Boy]

nature boy,

how do you dry your wet-tumble cases?

murf

Cookie sheet in the oven at low temp for ~10 min. Momma's oven has a convection feature. Works good

 

[jmorris]

If your in Texas you are wasting electricity turning on the oven. Not just the power the oven consumes but also the power the air conditioning will consume cooling too.

Just go set it outside for a few minutes in the sun.

You'll have to post a photo of the dents in the mouth so we know what your talking about but no, wet tumbling won't dent a case.

Couple of questions though. Are you sizing dirty brass, tumbling more than once or tumbling, lubing, then sizing?

 

[Kaldor]

I got out to the range this weekend for the first time in weeks and decided I'd see if there was a difference in accuracy between wet and dry tumbling on my .308 loads.

I recently bought the FART to process pistol brass because the range pick up is generally very dirty. This is where I think wet tumbling makes sense, however, I decided to see how it did on my Lapua .308 brass.

I'll say this, from a shinny stand point I see no appreciable difference between wet and dry, but, it does clean the primer pockets and inside the case. This is where I was curious. Does cleaning the inside the case remove some of that beneficial carbon in the neck that's supposed to reduce bullet seating friction. My conclusion:

1. I noticed no difference in felt resistance when seating, nor was their a difference in OAL after
2. A few of the case's mouths were dented. Does wet tumbling cause this? Anyone else see that?
3. Regarding accuracy fired 2 groups, 5 shots each at 200 yards. The difference between wet (left) and dry (right), dirty necks, clean pockets, shinny, shinny-er, etc.....nada

Bottom line. I'll wet tumble for range pick up pistol brass but think I'll just stick to dry tumbling for my rifle brass. It's just easier

Accuracy, no, its going to be the same, wet or dry.

I like wet tumbling because dry tumbling residue can and will gum up the primer system in alot of progressive presses.

Dry media does leave a light residue on the cases which makes sizing pistol brass easier. I give my pistol cases a little spray on OneShot instead. And yes, I use TiN dies.

I dont think there is any difference in seating pressure that we can tell without a fancy measuring device.

Dented case mouths happen with wet tumbling, especially it not running full drums, which lets the brass bounce around more. Seems to happen more as you get into larger cases like 30 caliber, 223 not so much. I use a Lyman M-Die to ghetto mandrel size my rifle cases before loading, which also makes sure they are nice and round and if need be, makes loading flat based bullets a piece of cake.

The big draw for me with wet tumbling was cutting a prep step off my rifle cases. No more chamfering and deburring cases. The SSTL media does that for me. The other draw for me is capacity. I run 2 drums that are roughly 1.4 gallons each with 7.5# of pins in each one. I run for 4 hours and they are spotless, and the primer pockets are probably 95% clean which is good enough. I process in large batches, so this works great for me. I dont mess with any fancy soaps, just Dawn and LemiShine. I dont really worry if they tarnish a little post tumbling. I have some brass that I tumbled a couple years ago that is looking a little dark, but it will load and shoot fine.

 

[Nature Boy]

If your in Texas you are wasting electricity turning on the oven. Not just the power the oven consumes but also the power the air conditioning will consume cooling too.

Just go set it outside for a few minutes in the sun.

You'll have to post a photo of the dents in the mouth so we know what your talking about but no, wet tumbling won't dent a case.

Couple of questions though. Are you sizing dirty brass, tumbling more than once or tumbling, lubing, then sizing?

I did this batch of .308 in the evening and didn't want to wait

The dents on the case mouth were small, but noticeable. Out of 200 cases I've only found a few. I'll post a pic if I see more.

In this particular case, I dry tumbled first, then annealed, then sized, then wet tumbled (with lube still on them), then dried, then loaded

 

[Reno380]

Can the Harbor Freight Vibratory do wet tumble? I know nothing of this tumbler, just got it and am just starting this reloading, have not even loaded one round as I am trying to read, ask, learn, and gather tools of the trade then understand them first. Sorry for the questions, but this is why.

Oh yeah, Stainless steel media, would SS BB's work in place of SS pins? Just curious as they are SS, and small in size too. I doubt it though.

Reno