What are dum-dum bullets?

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nwilliams

nwilliams

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I was watching the movie In Bruges again the other night (such a great movie btw) and the Belgian arms dealer mentioned he had dum-dum bullets. My question is simple, what the heck are dum-dum bullets? In the movie he said they explode the head which sounded a bit far fetched to me.

Are dum-dum bullets just another name for hollow points or are they something different?
 
I believe dum-dum was the slang used to describe hollow points or any other expanding type bullet way back in the day, when they were illegal. You could try google, come to think of it, I'm going to right now!
 
Dum Dum was for the arsenal in India. But it was also referred to the fact that the soft lead on bullets (before the concept of hollow points) had an X cut into the tips which aided in expansion, that was the theory.
 
The 1904 Hague Convention outlawed their use in ground combat by signatories thereto. Some controversies thereupon erupted during the early years of WWI, chiefly involving the British Webley loads.

Today we call them "expanding rounds."

Whether such rounds are or ought be intended for use or consumption by dum-dums is a matter beyond the scope of this discussion.
 
Before the invention of smart guns (and their accompaning smart ammunition) the neandrathal bullet of the day was really stupid and thus was called the Dum Dum :D I couldn't resist.

renegade alpha is correct - they were home made expanding bullets made by cutting an X in the tip - the poor mans hollowpoint as it were.
 
in the 'early days' of cartridge firearms most countries were arming their troops with big and slow cartridges like the 45-70 and the 45-577 martin henry like you see in the movie Zulu.

Anyways, the brits were early adopters of medium caliber rifles, the 303 enfield bieng this. however, the first loadings were blackpowder, then they swithed to cordite as that technology became available, and finally to smokeless powder. The original blackpowder loads didn't develope velocties over 2000 feet per second so they were basically not delivering the massive wounds we see in modern 30 caliber firearms. (note how history repeats, we cut the M4 down so far the 5.56 performs poorly because it falls below a velocity threshold and doesn't deliver the lethality a small high velocity cartridge is expected)

So, while the 303 was fine for shooting 'civilized' enemies (i.e. French, Germans, Italians, Spaniards, etc) who had enough sense to stop fighting when shot and go get medical attention, when faced with 'barbarians' the blackpowder 303 just wasn't dropping them.

The 'field expedient' solution was to take your knife and cut off the tip of the bullet. The original thought was to make it flat and wide, thinking it would work like a hammer. The real reason this technique worked is because it exposed the lead core. Now rather than a FMJ, the round being fired was a semi-jacketed lead softpoint, which as any hunter can tell you is going to expand a lot better.

Note, while it was frowned upon to use these expanding bullets on 'fellow civilized nations' it was viewed as totally fine for shooting people who had darker skin, as they were 'savages'
 
The Wiki is pretty close.
Captain Bertie Clay at Dum Dum Arsenal in India came up with the idea of grinding through the nose jacket of a .303 FMJ to form an improvised softpoint to improve "stopping power" on vicious Afghani tribesmen. You may recall discussions along those lines nowadays, leading to such ammo as the 5.56 Mk 262 and the 6.8mm.

It did not really work very well, the jacket is thick at the nose due to the way it is drawn, and just cutting through it at the tip did not cause it to expand much. But the British liked the idea and did a lot of testing to develop the concept. They shot some Wogs with the hollowpoint and softnose hunting bullets of the day and really liked the nasty wounds, but the commercial bullets were not accurate enough for the long range rifle doctrine of the day. So the Army went through a whole series of expansive bullets meant for the best combination of mushrooming and range.

As said, the Germans and other Continental competitors of the British in the colonial era objected at early Hague meetings. The British assured them that they limited expanding bullets to putting down insurrections of savage tribesmen and kept inventories of FMJs in the event of warfare with a "civilized" opponent. That did not fly, and they eventually gave up the notion.

It was all rendered moot by the adoption of the Mk VII spitzer bullet anyhow. Its pointed nose filled with lightweight fibre, aluminum, or clay made it the first of the notorious "tumbling" bullets. It would give as nasty a wound as a softpoint, although less predictable. Good enough for a Pathan or a Kraut.
 
Note, while it was frowned upon to use these expanding bullets on 'fellow civilized nations' it was viewed as totally fine for shooting people who had darker skin, as they were 'savages'
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Not strictly true.

Hague Convention banning the use of expanding bullets was ratified on July 29th 1899 (Declaration 3). In that time the UK fought 3 conflicts prior to WWI. The Boxer Rebellion, the Anglo-Aro War and the Easter Rising, in none of these conflicts was the UK accused of violations of the Hague Convention.

The only Accusation against the UK I can find from 1899 to the end of the second world war is for unrestricted submarine warfare in WW2 against German merchant shipping.

There was a German WWI unofficial accusation of the use of dum-dums against them supplied by Winchester in 1915, not sure whether that was ever proven or followed up; but Woodrow Wilson refused to answer, as it would be a violation of neutrality.
 
The slang meaning for dum dums "bullets with an x cut into the top" like in Taxi Driver. It was thought that they would expand like todays hollow points.
 
I always thought it was a hollow point that was filled with Mercury. Then sealed off, which caused the bullet to expand and fragment.

Something in the back of my mind about the Jones town suicide and using dum dum's on senators which started the mass suicide.
 
The real problem with the Geneva convention adoption was based on the lack of decent medical care for the wounded. Better to be shot 3 times with FMJ than once with hollow points in that day. There was also a great deal of uninformed but well intended moralizing going on in an attempt to make war "nicer." We still deal with this today. "Why can't everyone get along?"

Now its moot. Lethality with FMJ "varmint" type rounds is about the same. Police/LEO use shows HP use is now more humane because the higher incidence of one shot stops drops the reciever so that multiple followup shots are unecessary - unlike the days when the .38 reigned supreme. And shooting less endangers less bystanders.
 
Nowadays the term is used by uninformed or disingenuous people to describe any kind of expanding bullet, often attributing near-magical power and horrendous wounding to them. This can also be found in literature.
 
Hague Convention banning the use of expanding bullets was ratified on July 29th 1899 (Declaration 3). In that time the UK fought 3 conflicts prior to WWI.
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Yes, but only between signitaries of the convention, so because most of the 'savages' and 'tribal barbarians' were not signatories, the were not covered.

Basic treaty. I agree not to put rocks in the snowballs if you agree not to put rocks in your snowballs. Heck, Dan and Steve sign it too. Now none of us will throw snowballs with rocks stuck inside em at eachother.


That doesn't mean I throw snowballs with rocks in them at Ralph, he was there when we signed the treaty.

If I plan on getting in a snowball fight with Ralph, I am going to use the snowballs with the rock inside.

Of course, if enough people sign the treaty, it may become too much of a bother to keep two seperate piles of snowballs...unless there is a particular person who didn't sign that you particularly hate.

This is why the US gives hollowpoint ammo to it's anti-terrorist troops. Terrorists never went along with the agreement.
 
Nowadays the term is used by uninformed or disingenuous people to describe any kind of expanding bullet, often attributing near-magical power and horrendous wounding to them. This can also be found in literature.
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Yes.
And everybody knows to rub garlic on a cut-nose dumdum, too. If the victim survives the bullet wound, this will insure he gets blood poisoning.
 
Some of the latter designs for 303 bullet (MK7) did use both aluminum and wood to create a two piece construction under a full metal jacket. This in theory moved the center of gravity further back to create instability when the bullet hit it's target. This instability caused the bullet to tumble on impact increasing it's effectiveness.
 
In a series of pulp action novels I read almost 30 years ago, the protagonist used :scrutiny::rolleyes: .25 ACP "dum-dums," with graphic descriptions of exploded heads and such. (The author was known for this.)
 
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In the movie he said they explode the head which sounded a bit far fetched to me.
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You don't need dum dums or hollowpoints to 'explode heads'. Just watch the Kennedy assasination.

I always thought it was a hollow point that was filled with Mercury. Then sealed off, which caused the bullet to expand and fragment.
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That was done in a few movies. The one I recall that did that, IIRC, was The Exterminator.
 
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