What are good powders for hot .45 Colt?

[Rule3]

This article and many others have some good Thumper loads!
Gads cast bullets with WIN 296!!
By John Taffin
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/45-colt-load-data/370003

 

[Walkalong]

Funny, the only reason I downloaded my usual 245gr. Keith bullet (hard cast, lubed with Carnauba Red, from Stateline in Penzy) from 24.7gr. to 22.2gr. IMR 4227 is because my arthritic hands appreciate the "slightly" lower recoil. …….

Amen brother, I’m with you, can’t shoot a lot of the big bangers these days.

 

[RealGun]

Show me where a bullet company says you can’t use lead bullets in .44 Mag. People have been doing it as long as the caliber has been around.

Nonsequitur. I never said you couldn't or that a company said so, but would argue about stout loads.

 

[black mamba]

Anything slower than HS-6 should do a pretty good job of providing velocity at reasonable pressure. I prefer short barreled handguns, so my favorite is Accurate #7; it's clean burning, very accurate, and gives a complete burn in 5" barrels.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

No love for Accurate No 5?

 

[dh1633pm]

H110 FOR 45 Colt and 300 blk. Is there any other choice.

 

[Walkalong]

Nonsequitur. I never said you couldn't or that a company said so, but would argue about stout loads.

Ok.

The lead bullets should be reserved for Tier II loads, around 45 ACP pressure levels. H110/W296 is not indicated for lead bullets. The bullet is the limitation, not the gun.

H-110/W-296 will most certainly work with lead bullets, folks have been doing it for years. Yes, the bullet is the limitation, but lead doesn't limit us to non magnum loads. Did you read the members posts who do this, and have been doing this, for years? And they are not the only ones. You're simply wrong on this one.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I’m still waiting to hear from @TTv2 about what he wants these loads for. Everyone is concentrating on super fast and heavy Redhawk loads while ignoring the question about what works in a Rossi ‘92.
It’s easy to load for both but if you want any kind of interchangeable loads you need to think about it.

 

[Hondo 60]

the only powders I had enough of was 700x and Titegoup and neither really impressed me with the velocities listed.

Ya, ah, NO! those powders are not gonna give you stiffer loads.
My go-to would be 2400.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Funny, the only reason I downloaded my usual 245gr. Keith bullet (hard cast, lubed with Carnauba Red, from Stateline in Penzy) from 24.7gr. to 22.2gr. IMR 4227 is because my arthritic hands appreciate the "slightly" lower recoil. Leading hasn't ever been an issue. But then, I buy them sized to .431"...

Amen brother, I’m with you, can’t shoot a lot of the big bangers these days.

I'm with both of you. I don't shoot many boomers anymore either. I'll leave that you the young ones...

 

[.38 Special]

Just a little more regarding pressure and cast bullets...

Many years ago I had a custom Bisley Blackhawk with a five round cylinder. It's been on my mind lately, for whatever reason - it was stolen many years ago - so I dug out the little notebook I kept on it. Of the loads I'd tried, the best all around was a 360 grain LBT WLN, cast of water-quenched wheelweights for about 18 BHN, and loaded up with xx grains of H110 for 1500 fps. (I decided to delete the actual charge weight, as it will almost certainly wreck any gun not expressly made for it.) This load supposedly generates something like 55,000 psi, and in my notes I had written "Slight lead frost from lede to muzzle after five rounds. Looks about same after 25." (The notes don't say, but I suspect I didn't want to shoot the thing any more than that!)

Now, obviously most of us are not shooting custom guns with custom molds made to fit, but still... If I can't drive a properly-made bullet to 1200 fps out of a properly dimensioned gun without significant leading, something is wrong and needs to be fixed.

 

[RealGun]

Ok.
H-110/W-296 will most certainly work with lead bullets, folks have been doing it for years. Yes, the bullet is the limitation, but lead doesn't limit us to non magnum loads. Did you read the members posts who do this, and have been doing this, for years? And they are not the only ones. You're simply wrong on this one.

I am not wrong, if my only source of authority is bullet and powder company data, sources I have followed with rare exception. I don't disagree that people experiment off the books, beyond those boundaries and supposedly with success.

I have used a lower than data minimum charge but not higher. I recall that commercially published bare lead loads invariably top out around supersonic in the 1100-1200 fps range. One thing I agree with is that suggesting hard bullets in stout loads is simply wrong and that insisting up flat-based bullets is not practical, if relying upon purchasing bullets. My leading issues were reduced almost entirely by using Missouri's Cowboy alloy Br 12 (coated), presumably to aid in obturation.

 

[Charlie98]

I know 2400 and Unique are the old standbys but that's mostly because they were the only powders available back then.

I’m still waiting to hear from @TTv2 about what he wants these loads for. Everyone is concentrating on super fast and heavy Redhawk loads while ignoring the question about what works in a Rossi ‘92.
It’s easy to load for both but if you want any kind of interchangeable loads you need to think about it.

Well... they still work pretty good today, too. Granted, I substitute IMR4227 for 2400, which works better for me in a carbine barrel. Having said that, I normally recommend 2400 for pistols, it seems to work better there than IMR4227 unless you are running it at max. Like some of you guys, I don't run many heavy loads in my pistols anymore.

You can use Unique to push bullets pretty well, even heavies, but it's not my favorite thing to do, anymore. Since I've seen the light on the slower powders, I reserve Unique for mid- to upper-mid loads. Depending on what the OP wants out of his loads, he might wind up with 2 or 3 different powders in any event.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well... they still work pretty good today, too. Granted, I substitute IMR4227 for 2400, which works better for me in a carbine barrel. Having said that, I normally recommend 2400 for pistols, it seems to work better there than IMR4227 unless you are running it at max. Like some of you guys, I don't run many heavy loads in my pistols anymore.

You can use Unique to push bullets pretty well, even heavies, but it's not my favorite thing to do, anymore. Since I've seen the light on the slower powders, I reserve Unique for mid- to upper-mid loads. Depending on what the OP wants out of his loads, he might wind up with 2 or 3 different powders in any event.

I agree. Going with two loads optimized for each is the best path. Compromise loads aren’t optimal. But it’s possible - with some study and experimental development work - to put together a compromise which is a win-win. For my handguns/carbine Blue Dot with Sierra heavy JHC bullets does a really good job for hunting out of every .44Mag I shoot. It’s not a good paper puncher, though. Compromise. But, that’s also why purpose matters so much.

 

[murf]

Titegoup and neither really impressed me

1124 fps for the 250 xtp and 1004 fps for the 300 xtp doesn't impress you?

murf

 

[.38 Special]

I recall that commercially published bare lead loads invariably top out around supersonic in the 1100-1200 fps range. One thing I agree with is that suggesting hard bullets in stout loads is simply wrong and that insisting up flat-based bullets is not practical, if relying upon purchasing bullets.

I suspect that "purchased bullets" and "published loads" are interrelated. The cast bullet makers - with the exception of expensive "boutique" places - are putting out "bullet shaped objects" designed both for easy manufacture and surviving the shipping process. They are rarely the correct hardness, proper size, and ideal shape for a given handgun, and so can't be expected to work very well except by luck. The folks putting out the loading manuals understand this, which is why the published loads are usually well under pressure limits for the cartridge. There are exceptions, though - Hodgdon, as an example, publishes 30,000 CUP loads for lead bullets, with the results exceeding 1200 FPS. With over-the-counter bullets, of course, that's a recipe for leading, but we should be grateful to companies like Hodgdon for assuming that at least some of their customers are going to be reasonably savvy.

 

[25-20 WCF]

1124 fps for the 250 xtp and 1004 fps for the 300 xtp doesn't impress you?

Not when he can get 250-300 fps more with H/110 etc. Remember he wants those “hot loads”….




.

 

[Charlie98]

Remember he wants those “hot loads”….

TiteGroup will do it. 50 rounds of 255's and a midrange load of TiteGroup... and my pistol was so hot I could hardly hold it to punch the empties out. But... methinks we are talking about a different 'hot' load...

 

[TTv2]

I’m still waiting to hear from @TTv2 about what he wants these loads for. Everyone is concentrating on super fast and heavy Redhawk loads while ignoring the question about what works in a Rossi ‘92.
It’s easy to load for both but if you want any kind of interchangeable loads you need to think about it.

Obviously these wouldn't be home defense ammo, it would be general outdoors use.

Interchangeable loads for both the Redhawk and Rossi would be ideal.

 

[LOLBELL]

I load a 270 grain lead bullet cast with tire weights in an RCBS mold. It’s lubed with the NRA formula in a Lyman 450. I push it with a near max load of IMR4227. This load groups very well in a Super Blackhawk Hunter and even better in a Rossi 92. I have no leading problems in either firearm. You can push lead VERY hard if you do your homework and have your bullet, throat, and groove diameters coordinated properly.
I’m not sure what the speed is with this load, my chrono give up a while back but it will knock a 150 Alabama whitetail off of its feet at a 100 yards.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Obviously these wouldn't be home defense ammo, it would be general outdoors use.

Interchangeable loads for both the Redhawk and Rossi would be ideal.

Well, we may need to narrow that down a bit. To me, living in a rural area in Florida, near the west coast and in dense brush country, a “general outdoors” load is a close range - under 25yds - aggressive animal stopper. We have small black bears very rarely, panthers and bobcats also rarely, but coyotes, wild boar, feral and abandoned dogs, and alligator are all very common. Bad people are less common than hungry bears but are far more dangerous if encountered. We very occasionally have stupid, dim, careless and-or foolish people come around but coyotes are far and away more common. We get fox sometimes too but they’re protected.
So, short version, what does a, “general outdoors” .45 need to do?

 

[RealGun]

This article and many others have some good Thumper loads!
Gads cast bullets with WIN 296!!
By John Taffin
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/45-colt-load-data/370003

The lead bullets used with 296/H110 are mostly 18-21 Brinell hardness and gas checked.

 

[Buck13]

The Redhawk grip (or anything handsome) is not user friendly at some point in the power spectrum. I settled on the Bantam Pachmayr taken from a 4" Redhawk. Trigger reach is an issue with Redhawks, so leaving the backstrap bare helps there.

Well, personal preference there. I find a Super Blackhawk painful to shoot in .43 Magnum, but I can shoot quite a few full-house loads in my Redhawk and enjoy it.

The smooth original grips slip in my hand a little with real magnum loads, which may not be a bad thing. Sometimes that gives me a little blister on the base of my thumb, so if I'm planning ahead I'll put a preemptive Bandaid there or wear a glove. Other than that, it's the cost of the pills that makes me want to stop shooting.

 

[RealGun]

Well, personal preference there. I find a Super Blackhawk painful to shoot in .43 Magnum, but I can shoot quite a few full-house loads in my Redhawk and enjoy it.

The smooth original grips slip in my hand a little with real magnum loads, which may not be a bad thing. Sometimes that gives me a little blister on the base of my thumb, so if I'm planning ahead I'll put a preemptive Bandaid there or wear a glove. Other than that, it's the cost of the pills that makes me want to stop shooting.

I wonder if the difference in your impression with the two guns is the comparative bore axis. My 44 Magnum Super Blackhawk is a Bisley after trying another gun with standard grips and needing to avoid heavy loads. My Redhawk was 45 Colt, used exclusively for "Ruger-only" loads, so I know about stout recoil with the gun.

 

[Buck13]

I wonder if the difference in your impression with the two guns is the comparative bore axis. My 44 Magnum Super Blackhawk is a Bisley after trying another gun with standard grips and needing to avoid heavy loads. My Redhawk was 45 Colt, used exclusively for "Ruger-only" loads, so I know about stout recoil with the gun.

Quite likely.

Also, I'm a DA revo shooter from childhood, almost never shot SA revos. It's possible I'm not gripping the Blackhawk in the best possible way, maybe?

Also also, the Redhawk is 6 oz. heavier. Not a huge difference, but it would slow down the recoil a little.