What bullets not to use for deer

[flashhole]

Don't use any of my bullets for deer ... bad choice ... they never leave the gun barrel. My wife has taken to calling me Barney Fife because I use the same round time after time, year after year. She rubs salt in the wound by saying I should get my yearly armed hiking license, not a hunting license.

 

[kingmt]

I tnink of myself as a good shoot & only take shoots I can make. I had started only makeing head shoots because there is no meat to damage & they are DRT. I as much as I would like to can't say I never miss.

I Can tell you about everyone of them & both that I never found after good shoots with a bow. This is after 25 years of hunting.

 

[Saint Dennis]

In the magnum calibers, I think bullet choice is very important. Bullets can fail and still kill deer, I will grant you that. But that would be when everything goes right. It is when things go wrong that you cant except bullet failure. After 40 years of deer hunting I can attest that there are many ways for things to go wrong. If you hunt in timber, (that's where the deer are in the north country), you may wait a long time for a perfect shot. Maybe the armed hiking license would be a good option. Big deer get big by not offering perfect shots. A tiny branch you dont see through the scope can deflect a bullet a long way. That buck you see may not ever stop. He has an agenda and it doesn't include standing still, broadside, in your shooting lane. Heavy for caliber premium bullets, (I like the .30 - 200 gr accubond in my Winmag), are worth the price difference. When the deer can be from 20 feet to 300 yards we are asking a lot of bullet design. Launching them from a magnum is asking even more. I complained once of bullet performance from a ballistic tip. The rep said, "in what part of the deer expiring did the bullet fail?" I shot back at him, "by blowing up and only penetrating 4". Is that what you designed it to do?"

 

[kingmt]

In all the deer I've shoot in the head I can't remimber more then one ear being left on any of them. Would that mean all of my bullets failed?

I can understand if your a trophy hunter not taking a head shoot. I once did the same but I deciced the bucks were getting to small & the does to many. I hate to track & watching them die so that changed my style of shooting.

 

[Frozen North]

Tell me boys, is there a lot of good neck meat? You might try some neck shots if you're concerned about meat damage or your deer going too far.

We butchered a 220lb buck last week.... yeah there was allot of neck meat... the dang thing was huge. That's the thing about big buck deer, they have gigantic necks with about 30 pots worth of chili meat on them. It's dang good chili meat too. I ain't giving it up to save a few dollars on ammo.

In all the deer I've shoot in the head I can't remimber more then one ear being left on any of them. Would that mean all of my bullets failed?

I can understand if your a trophy hunter not taking a head shoot. I once did the same but I deciced the bucks were getting to small & the does to many. I hate to track & watching them die so that changed my style of shooting.

The vast majority of hunters are not proficient enough to take a clean head shot. The few that are have cold hands and are dealing with low light shooting conditions. Stick the variable of buck fever in there, and you have ruled out 90%+ of all hunters in the field.

But hey, if you don't mind passing on a bunch of shots or blowing half the deer apart, there is no reason to use decent ammo in a high powered rifle.

 

[gamestalker]

We do have spotter's watching during, and after each shot. It would be very irresponsible to take long shots without someone watching closely. I've seen plenty of hunter's lose a game animal by taking long shots without another set of eye's on the shot.

 

[gamestalker]

Ya, I won't go for neck shots either. Some consider the neck to be of little use for the dinner table, but I strongly disagree with that. I grind it into some tasty burger or make sausage with it. Throwing it away would be lazy and wasteful, just plain wrong in my opinion.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I agree that the neck meat is good. Maybe not for frying or grilling, but it's just fine for the crock pot. It's all the same when you slow cook it overnight, and it's all tasty.

 

[Boo-Radley]

I load nothing but Hornady, and hear all about "the bullet did not perform" but I have never had to track an animal. Where they stood is where they died, its more about shot placement and I try for high neck shots, and as for penetration with the 7mm RM I load for my brother and we have never recovered a bullet because they have always been through and through's, How much more penetration is needed???

High on the neck is THE BEST PLACE to shoot a deer. Right under the butt of the ear. If you are fortunate enough to have a shot at that area, it is THE PLACE to shoot a deer.

However, I did have an unusual experience with bullet performance many years ago. My father, my brother, and I were hunting mule deer in Northeastern Oregon. For some reason baron does were always common in that area, and some of those does were bigger than many nice bucks. We came across a small herd led by a GIANT doe. We stopped, I laid my 30-30 Topper Model 158 (same as current Handi Rifle) across the seat of my motorcycle, and took the rather easy 35-40 yard shot.

The deer dropped right in her tracks. She did not take even one step. I was shooting a 150 grain round nose bullet with a max load of 4895. When we got up to the deer it had what appeared to be an entrance wound in her left shoulder. It looked like I had shot her in the approximate center of the shoulder that was facing me. The rest of the trip I took **** off my dad, uncles, cousins, hell, even the women in camp!

When we got home and skinned the beast, GUESS WHAT! I hit that deer exactly where I aimed; at the butt of the ear, high one the neck. The bullet hit the spine, turned, traveled down the spine, turned again, and exited through the left front shoulder. There was not a single sign of fragmentation, and the exit wound was small enough to pass for an entrance wound. WIERD!

 

[Steel Talon]

Saint Dennis
Launching them from a magnum is asking even more. I complained once of bullet performance from a ballistic tip. The rep said, "in what part of the deer expiring did the bullet fail?" I shot back at him, "by blowing up and only penetrating 4". Is that what you designed it to do?"

Back in the 90's I've experienced the exact same with my 300win mag velocities and Ballistic Tips. I've had em "pencil" through a deers boiler room through and through. Small exit hole no blood trail.

Next Deer I shot I hit him upper shoulder. "Explosive" results on impact, blew a crater large enough to cradle a soft ball in.

Will never use a BT on big game again

 

[James2]

At this point I don't know how many mule deer I have killed, but its a bunch. After I got tired of messy gutting jobs and blood shot meat, I decided that a bullet to the brain was the best shot. I did after all have the gun and the skills to place a shot there, and I did hunt for the meat. Its just bang, plop. No wounded deer running off and it really doesn't matter what the bullet. From a 50 gr pill from a 222 to a 180 gr from a 300 win mag.

Of course there are times when you don't want to ruin the head, and times when a long range shot to the head is risky so we might take a body shot occasionally. Go for the heart. Any bullet around 120 grains up and travelling to 2800-3000 FPS will easily take out a deer sized animal if placed properly. I said earlier I didn't like bullets that came apart because they ruin meat, however I never had one of those bullets fail to kill the animal, if placed in the boiler room. They were in fact very deadly.

(I don't recommend the 222 for body shots)

Shot placement is the key.

 

[Boo-Radley]

Okay -- I'm about to say something controversial: So controversial it probably get me run off this board, and forever placed in The Hall of Shame.

I like BIG GUNS as much as the next guy. I own a S&W 29-2, and my next acquisition may very well be an H&R Buffalo Classic. (I love those things!!)

However, the subject of meat damage reminded me of THE FACT that the long obsolete 25-20 Winchester probably put more meat on American tables than all our high powered magnums combined. You don't need a canon to kill a deer. The best way to prevent excessive meat loss is to use an appropriate weapon.

That's my honest opinion. Now go ahead; flame away!

 

[IM391]

Your loads are running hot. Average speed ought to be around 3150fps according to current load information. That may give you super accuracy but it will also destablize a bullet on impact. Sierra is particularly unstable at high velocities. That is why they can out with the Pro-hunter to begin with...the Game King likes to explode at maxium velocity on thin skin game, like deer.

 

[THe Dove]

the Game King likes to explode at maxium velocity on thin skin game, like deer.

I may be wrong but don't deer have hide????? I thought animals that sweat out of thier noses have hides and those that sweat through their body have skins.... I know this has nothing to do with shot placement but may impact or help one make a decision on boolits..... Again, I may be wrong....

The Dove

 

[BBDartCA]

7mm is a TON of gun for a deer. Any hunting bullet in optimal weight should do you fine. I would just avoid target bullets like Match Kings. Yeah, shot placement is THE important factor.

 

[James2]

However, the subject of meat damage reminded me of THE FACT that the long obsolete 25-20 Winchester probably put more meat on American tables than all our high powered magnums combined.

Yes, and lets not forget the 30-30 Win. A very effective and popular round for putting meat on the table.

Lets face it, "meat hunters" learn how to shoot. Ammo cost and availability was a big factor to many in years past. My father would make a box of 30-30 cartridges last at least ten years, and he would bring home a deer every year. The first time he let me shoot the 30-30 it was at my first deer. He simply said, "Take a fine bead." Yes, the deer dropped in its tracks. Later the same day he let me shoot again and bag his deer too. Two shots, two deer. He was pleased, and its hard to tell how I felt. My introduction to big game hunting. I had learned to shoot by shooting the ground squirrels that ate the crops with a 22 LR. There again ammo cost and supply was a factor and Dad expected a good kill rate. Guns were a tool to get a job done, not toys.

 

[Boo-Radley]

Yes, and lets not forget the 30-30 Win. A very effective and popular round for putting meat on the table.

Lets face it, "meat hunters" learn how to shoot. Ammo cost and availability was a big factor to many in years past. My father would make a box of 30-30 cartridges last at least ten years, and he would bring home a deer every year. The first time he let me shoot the 30-30 it was at my first deer. He simply said, "Take a fine bead." Yes, the deer dropped in its tracks. Later the same day he let me shoot again and bag his deer too. Two shots, two deer. He was pleased, and its hard to tell how I felt. My introduction to big game hunting. I had learned to shoot by shooting the ground squirrels that ate the crops with a 22 LR. There again ammo cost and supply was a factor and Dad expected a good kill rate. Guns were a tool to get a job done, not toys.

For many years I hunted deer and elk with a Harrington & Richardson Topper Model 158. It's the same rifle they now market as the Handi Rifle. Back then it was only available in 30-30 Winchester, and we had 3 of them in the family. I have no clue how many deer and elk we took with the three rifles combined.

At the present time I am seriously considering a Handi Rifle for deer. I don't think I'll buy it chambered for 30-30. I have a special fondness for the 243 cartridge. That's plenty of gun for black tail deer, and in my part of the country you never know if a deer will step out of the heavy brush 15 feet away, or you'll spot one 200 yards away over on the next ridge top. The trajectory of the 243 probably makes it a better choice than the 30-30 in my little corner of the world.

Although, if I could get my hands on an original Topper Model 158, I would be delighted. The older-the better. The originals were tack driving machines, and would shoot just about any load well. In addition, they were works of art compared to a new Handi Rifle.

And by the way, you made a great post.

 

[quartermaster]

gamestalker

I appreciated the review on bullets and not sure you deserved some of the remarks that were posted in the aftermath. I have read some of our posts in the past and found that you know what's going on.

I was always curious as the reliability of the pro- hunters. I pretty much have always loaded Nosler BTs. Most of the time, I have got very good accuracy out of them. People remark that they ruin a lot of meat, but generally my point to aim is at the base of the neck and there is not much meat to ruin there. Of course in the real hunting world there is not always time to set up and make this shot, so you have got to go for the boiler room. My experience is that I have not suffered from a lot of meat damage through fragmentation. Granted you may find a hunk of lead here and there, but not as bad as people make it out to be. Of course I don't shoot for the loins or hind corners. If I can't get a good shot, I will pass. I have a few friends that load 130 gr speer HPs in 30 cals and report that it is devastating on deer. They are real country boys, good shots, and meat eaters. I'm sure that if any head fragments, it would be that, yet they use it effectively.

Getting back to my reason for posting this. I was always curious as to how the pro hunters performed. I have found that if I can't get the boat tail ballistic tips to shoot accurately, trying a flat base pro hunter can make a substancial difference. I know that ballistic tips are not supposed to be effective over 3200 or so fps, according to Nosler and wondered about the Sierras. I also realize that a 3300fps drops down to 3200 reasonable fast after exiting the muzzle. Do you have any input as to the pro hunters performance in the 3000 fps window? They are good shooting bullets and I just started using them, with no opportunity to shoot a deer with them yet.

Just wondering.

 

[Skyshot]

The 7mag is a super round, it's my favorite deer cartridge that I hunt with. I have been loading this round since 1973 and with almost everything available. One thing that I have found out for sure, if you are loading bullets that push 3000 fps you will have meat damage with a lot of the mid to light weight bullets. Some do better than others, a lot depends on the bullet, and the velocity at impact. The big 7 always kills quickly, unless you can't shoot for crap. My load of choice is the Nosler 160 Accubond loaded with 62 to 63 grains of IMR 7828, that's only clocking around 2800 to 2900 fps. in most 24+ inch sporter barrels. However this load shoots sub 1/2 MOA in my model 700 and sub MOA in The Savage 110, Browning Abolt and Weatherby that we have loaded for. No bullet blowups at any distances and that's close range out 400+ yards that we have made kills with. We've also taken several Caribou and bears with that load with same results. Easy on your shoulder and barrel I might add also.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=138045&d=1299796102