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What can you get out of a 223 in a short barrel?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by SamT1, Jul 19, 2018.

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  1. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    How short can you go on a 223/5.56 with a suppressor before you give up major velocity?

    Does anyone make a suppressor that uses some area towards the breech for expansion so it doesn’t stick out so far?

    What I’d like is a gun that with a suppressor that is similar length to a 16”AR with the flash hider. If I can do that without loosing too much velocity. Maybe a pencil barrel too to keep the weight down. Compact, light weight, and still enough oomph to work on coyotes and pigs and targets of course.

    I know the blackout lends itself more to this, but I already have one of those.
     
  2. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Have you looked at ballisticsbytheinch? I forget the exact website but they tested most everything common and started long, cut down to a stub an inch at a time.
     
  3. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    5.56 does decent out of 10"-12" barrels as compared to 16". The suppressor feature you're looking for is called a reflex chamber, but they honestly don't do all that much. I'd rather have a lighter 7" can forward of the muzzle than an 8 incher with 2" of reflex chamber.

    If you want to do a "one stamp" upper, take a look at the TBAC takedown 556. It's designed to be pinned to short barrels, fully serviceable with a baffle stack that can be reordered to change out the blast baffle and only costs $250 when it wears out. The whole can is just $500. It's heavy, but works well and is very tough.
     
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  4. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    When I was researching that same question I settled on 10.5" being as short as I want to go and still have acceptable (to me) ballistics. That's not to say I don't own a 7" AR that will do some damage but that is not my primary gun. There are charts out there that have velocity by the inch, you don't loose as much as you'd think, and there are many articles on the effectiveness of short barrel AR's, I've read a bunch and kind of take it all with a grain of salt and form my own opinion after reading a bunch. If I wasn't putting a suppressor on the end I would bump that barrel length out to 12.5" but with my can and a 10.5" barrel I'll be about 16.5" overall 'barrel' length.

    One of the things they did when designing the .300 blackout cartridge was designed it for a 9" barrel knowing it would primarily be suppressed.
     
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  5. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    To maximize barrel length for velocity while minimizing overall length with a suppressor, go with a 16" middy and a 7" AMTAC over the barrel suppressor. The AMTAC adds about 3.5" to the overall length. The portion that fits over the barrel is used to reduce back pressure.
     
  6. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Consider your own question from a different perspective - if you start at the short end, how much longer can you make the barrel without noticing a difference in handling? I have or have had 7, 9, 10.5, 12, 14.5, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 29, and 31" AR's. From 7" to 10.5", even with the can out front, I really don't feel much change in handling. Getting up to 12-14.5", there's a distinct shift in how they feel in hand. If you start at the long end and start working shorter, everything looks pretty dismal, heck, I don't really like seeing numbers out of an 18" barrel, after spending time with Match Rifles.

    So for me, I land at 10.5" for SBR/pistols, suppressed, and 20" for rude rifles.
     
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Sure, if you want to add that length and 20 ounces to your rifle and it still not be hearing safe.

    Like I said, reflex designs are a waste. If they were worthwhile, I'd have continued developing them and other makers would be on that wagon. Propellant gasses have a vector, and even a cursory understanding of fluid dynamics makes it easy to see why reflex chambers really don't do squat.

    AMTAC's stuff is also all monocore (a word they themselves seem allergic to); there's a reason the top performing centerfire rifle cans use stacked conical baffles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  8. Jenrick

    Jenrick Member

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    What ammo do you use, and what ranges are you engaging at? A 75yd shot with modern expanding soft point hunting rounds is massively different than a 300 yd shot with a varmint bullet. This will determine how short you want to go. For most expanding ammo you need to stay above about 2600 FPS to have the round expand reliably. For fragmenting (varmint bullets basically), you want to stay above 2800 FPS for reliable fragmentation, faster is better in general. For target work, just don't drop below the sound barrier and your life will be good (5.56 bullets are just too light to reliably handle going transonic when you're aiming for precision (pun intended)).
     
  9. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    Gun will be a truck gun. Bang it around. Shoot coyotes at all ranges. Shoot pigs. Shoot lots of steel at all ranges.

    I’m torn between an A2 upper or a flat top. I’m gonna put together a flat top carbine with carry handle and mess with it and see what direction I want to go.

    I like that thunder beast. I cast and have kicked myself for not buying serviceable cans in the past. It’s a heck of a lot of fun to go after the dueling tree at 30 yards with an AR and some cast bullets.
     
  10. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Well, for the most part, centerfire cans being serviceable is rather pointless, they don't need to be cleaned unless you shoot lead. Of course, since you want to shoot cast, that makes sense. The real appeal to that TBAC, though, is the long life with moving baffles around and minimal recore cost when you finally smoke them all. I'd go that route for a heavy use can if I weren't able make my own. As it were, mine, which I consider a machine gun suppressor, is a tad shorter and a little fatter. The big difference is I pass on any 300 series stainless and, in this case, it doesn't really have a tube in the conventional sense; the entire body of mine is made from 1-13/16" 422 stainless bar stock, bored out 5.5" deep.

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  11. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    That looks expensive!
     
  12. Arizona_Mike

    Arizona_Mike Member

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    The navy looked at the same considerations and came up with 10.3" for the mk18 CQBR. I hear they run great with MK262 77gr ammo. I picked up the Daniel Defence barrel with the 0.070" gas port but have not built the upper yet.

    Mike

    PS. 300 BLK and 7.62x39 will retain 85% of their muzzle energy in the 10-10.5" range. The 5.56 not so much!
     
  13. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    Already have a blackout 10.5” it’s fun to shoot, but the pistol brace doesn’t work well for big guys. I’d imagine it would share time on the form1 lower. It needs a finger cutter, mirror scraper quad rail swaped for a lighter grip without the tacticool mess.

    Too many choices. Need one of each.
     
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