What centerfire cartridges are quiet?

[redbullitt]

Subsonic 308 should be worth a look. With trailboss and 180 round nose bullets it works quite well. Good thump when it hits and low cost on your wallet. FWIW Trailboss has worked very well for me doing sub loads.

I saw 357 rifle listed, which I think would be a great idea too. Reloading would make it very cheap to shoot, especially to plink with.

On the pricier end, I like the 300 whisper or blackout cartridges. Hope to put one together some time.

 

[BCRider]

For quiet subsonic rounds I think you're right that 300 is over the top. The bullet weight doesn't matter much. At those speeds you'll be lobbing the rounds onto target at 300 yards with a crazy amount of holdover.

Something to consider about Trail Boss is that it's not an inherently quiet powder. It's just that the majority of load recipes for it are intended for lower power loads used in Cowboy Action and the like. So those loadings tend to be quieter.

I've got some Trail Boss which was bought to load up cowboy loads for a buddy. But at the lower pressures it's a pretty dirty burning powder which doesn't expand the brass fully for the whole burn cycle. As a result we noticed that the sides of the .45Colt brass were badly sooted/stained. Switched to Clays Universal and the side wall stains went away but the loads are the same power and noise level. I've since been using the Trail Boss to load up some lighter .44Mag rounds to a .44Spl sort of pressure and velocity. The resulting stout charges at 7 gns are still darn loud from a hand gun. But not as loud as the actual full house mag loads.

As far as a quiet rifle goes the secret is really pretty simple. You want to keep it closer to subsonic or at least not go too far over supersonic. And you want to powder it up such that the pressure in the barrel is fairly low as the bullet leaves the muzzle. The lower the pressure the quieter it'll be.

All of which suggests that ANY rifle can be loaded to be quiet. But generally load recipes for rifle cartridges aren't listed for slower speeds. At least not the books that I've got. They all seem to use nearly full case loads of rifle powders and the listed velocities are somewhat narrow in range. So that would suggest that you'd want to go with handgun powders for small load charges to get down to subsonic muzzle speeds. I suggest this because hangun powders are, for the most part, OK with small charges in big cases. On the other hand it's not a good idea to use rifle powders in charges of less than recomended in the loading charts due to the possible issue of the high surface exposure of a light charge promoting too sudden a burn all across the exposed area and a pressure spike.

Hmmmm.... Just looking at my Lyman reloading book for .308 as an example I see they've got loads for cast bullets in the 160 to 170 range that show Unique as one of the powder options. Lots of folks swear by Unique for handguns and load a variety of charges from low to hot. The Lyman book is showing loads of around 10'ish grains of Unique for 160 to 170 gn cast bullets to achieve 1600'ish fps. That seems like it would be a great starting point that gives the option of further downloading to around 8.5 to 9gns of powder to get down to around 1100 to 1200 fps for quiet plinking.

So depending on what you've got currently and what sort of money they want for the sort of bullets you'd want to plink with loading your current stuff for quiet shots may well be a good option. As interesting as that 300 Blackout development looks if you can achieve what you're after with an existing gun why get into something else?

Oh, on the lower recoil part? From shooting handguns in both the short 9mm and similar bullet weight and velocity .38's and .357 loads the greater the case volume for a given amount of poweder the softer the recoil. Looking at loading data this seems to relate directly to the peak chamber pressure. So again going with a downloaded large capacity case will produce more of a softer push than a sharp snap.

When it's all said and done though I can say for sure that 900'ish fps .38Spl's out of a lever rifle I use for cowboy action are so quiet that you "almost" don't need to wear hearing protection. It's quiet enough that I can walk by others shooting similar rifles and calibers at around 20 yards away without the sound being loud enough that I feel that there's any risk of damage. Yet such rounds, with suitable holdover, can hit a 12 inch gong at 200 yards rested 2 out of 3 times even with iron sights and being guided by a guy who needs glasses to see decently clearly at such ranges. Yet I can't wear them because it makes the front sight super blurry. So I compromise and just shoot for fun until I get around to setting the rifle up with a rear small aperature peep to give my eyes a much needed aid. Once I get a good peep sight I expect I'll hit that gong 8 or 9 out of 10.

 

[popper]

9-10 gr unique behind a 170 CB (30-30) is fun but NOT quiet.

 

[T.R.]

44 Special fired from 44 MAG carbine is very quiet. But lethal distance is about same as modern archery gear.

TR

 

[RevGeo]

Another vote for the .22 Hornet.

George

 

[GooseGestapo]

Two recommendations:

1. H&R Handi-rifle in .357mag. Shoot 148gr-158gr Lead .38spl loads. Even from the longer barrel they are subsonic and only a little louder than a .22lr "subsonic" load.

2. A .22Hornet with lead cast bullets over 2.5-3.0gr of Bullseye is rather noise-less. Even quieter is the Hornet with .22cal air-rifle pellets over a Magnum primer. About like an air-rifle.

I've shot the .30/30 with 78gr RN cast bullets for the .32acp loaded over 5.0gr of Bullseye. They were a little noiser than a .22lr and were very, very accurate at 25yds.

My Hornet with 5.5gr of #2400 or 6.8gr of SR4759 and a 50gr GasChecked cast bullet is about like a .22wrm. Not uncomfortable w/o hearing protection and at 1,900fps is a real killer on small game. With a good run of bullets, they'll shoot 1.5moa at 100yds. 10-shots, not 3 !!!!

 

[BCRider]

By the way, in thinking about this I remembered when my Cowboy Action group did "long range" rifle speed shooting two years back. I shot my usual light .38Spl 158gn loads at the 50 and 100 yard target plates. The 50 yard I hit with sights leveled at the middle of the plate. I missed the first three out of five on the 100 yard with calls of "low, low, low" from the RO. I found I needed almost a foot of holdover at 100 yards for these 900'ish fps loads. The speeds of these loads having been chronoed some time before that from my revolvers. So the rifle was likely sending them out at around 950 fps. So even shooting slow subsonics out to 200 yards may involve ballistic trajectory calculations....

Isn't there an online external ballistics calculator?

 

[Pete D.]

Pete, what on earth is that on the left?

The cartridge on the left (post #9) is a 50-70-750. Simply a 50-70 case loaded with a .50 BMG bullet. The powder is H322, 30 grains. It is fired out of a fast twist barrel (1-8") from SSK at something between 800-900 fps. Quite accurate. Not quiet.
Pete

 

[mortablunt]

Quiet for a centerfire means that it will only go off indoors and leave you partially deaf for a good 10 min. Rimfires are much quieter because they are rarely supersonic, which generates most of the noise.

 

[Mike1234567]

The cartridge on the left (post #9) is a 50-70-750. Simply a 50-70 case loaded with a .50 BMG bullet. The powder is H322, 30 grains. It is fired out of a fast twist barrel (1-8") from SSK at something between 800-900 fps. Quite accurate. Not quiet.
Pete

Pics and more info, please!!

 

[Pete D.]

More info? Re: post #9

Pics and more info, please!!

I don't have any other pics. Just that one.
Both rounds are the brainchildren of "whisper" mavin J.D.Jones of SSK Industries.
SSK makes the fast twist barrels that are necessary. The 50-70-750 barrel is made for the T/C Encore. Velocities using Reloader 7 or H322 are in the 800-900 fps range. I use mostly surplus pulled 690 grain BMG bullets.
Fired from the Encore, the gun has the fastest recoil pulse of any rifle that I have ever shot. It is the only scoped gun that has ever bitten me. I just could not get out of the way. I had to go to a red dot to get enough eye relief.
The neat thing about the Whisper rounds and this variation is that, while subsonic, they lose velocity very slowly. At 600 yards, I am told by my little ballistics calculator, that Hornady A-Max 750 (800 fps MV) is still going over 740 fps.
Ok - took a pic of a 690 loaded into a case made from a .348 Winchester case:

 

[DIM]

How about 30 BR loaded with 8 gr IMR TB, I tried that on 6BR wile fireforming my cases where I don't use valuable bullets, just paper towel plug, but I did fire few 105 grains and they were quiet to a point I had no need for ear plugs. Anyway what I've heard is the 30 BR which is using same cases as 6 BR only neck is expanded to fit 30 cal bullets, here what guys from 6mmBR had to say about it: "New Applications -- 30BR for Hunting and Tactical Use?
Currently, the 30BR is used almost exclusively for Benchrest competition. However, we think it has great potential for other applications given its inherent accuracy and superior efficiency. The 30BR can drive a 118gr bullet faster than the 6BR case can drive a 105gr bullet. In fact, the 30BR can push a 125gr bullet faster than a Rem 260 can drive a 123gr Scenar, despite using 10 grains less powder. Using suitable hunting projectiles, the 30BR is a viable deer-hunting round, with ballistics superior to the venerable 30-30. A 112gr bullet going 3000 fps is also going to make quick work of a coyote. In the tactical arena, the 30BR has much promise, because it can use .308 military bullets, and it can be downloaded to subsonic levels. In a rifle equipped with a sound suppressor, the 30BR could be a very effective "stealth" weapon."

 

[popper]

The bang you hear is the sound from the gasses leaving the muzzle. The crack you hear from a bullet flying overhead is the bullet shock wave.

 

[Gdbyrd]

Would a smaller or larger caliber make any difference towards the report? Say a 260 vs a 45/70. Both at about 900-1100 fps. Will the one with more powder be the louder one? That seems to make sense to me. I can't see it making a difference, especially if the 45 is a 400grn and the 260 is a 150 grn...it'd take more powder to push the heavier bullet at a certain speed, so that'd be the louder one correct?

That making any sense?


Also, why are most of the barrels built for subsonic work made at about 16". Is it because they're expected to have a can attached making the overall length a lot longer? Seems to me a longer barrel would be better. Use slightly less powder for a potentially higher velocity.

If I wanted to use a standard caliber and avoid the wildcat type of stuff, what caliber would best suit my needs? I might already have it in stock.

That 50-70-750 is super impressive, I can only imagine what that's like to shoot.

 

[M1key]

Speed of sound is ~1126fps depending on temperature. Got to keep the bullet speed below that to have any hope of being quiet. Longer barrel means higher velocity means greater chance of exceeding that speed.

For best results, most sub-sonic guns shoot heaviest bullets at slowest (<1100fps) velocities. Add a suppressor on top of that and you have a quiet shooter.

I like the idea of a 9mm carbine shooting 147 sub-loads. My PC-9 is not as loud (to me) as a .22 HV LR.

M

 

[Gdbyrd]

I'd like something a little heavier than a 9mm. Although that's certainly an option. Those Keltec Sub-2000s look like a lot of fun..but I'm not sure how well subsonic ammo would cycle in it.

For pistol calibers I'd still prefer to stay with something around the size of a 357.

 

[M1key]

Marlin 1894 lever gun chambered in 357mag. Load 38spl wadcutters...

But then you are getting the same performance as a 9mm carbine.

M

 

[Shadow 7D]

None of them
even suppressed aren't quite quiet, quieter yes...

 

[benzy2]

.223 loaded with blue dot.

 

[Inebriated]

This may help your decision a little.

 

[rjrivero]

Speed of sound is ~1126fps depending on temperature. Got to keep the bullet speed below that to have any hope of being quiet. Longer barrel means higher velocity means greater chance of exceeding that speed.

For best results, most sub-sonic guns shoot heaviest bullets at slowest (<1100fps) velocities. Add a suppressor on top of that and you have a quiet shooter.

I like the idea of a 9mm carbine shooting 147 sub-loads. My PC-9 is not as loud (to me) as a .22 HV LR.

M

A 147gr 9mm bullet out of a 16" barrel is actually SLOWER than it is out of a 8" barrel. I chronographed American Eagle 147gr and they were actually 112fps slower in the 16" barrel vs the 8" barrel. 912fps in the 16" AR barrel vs 1026 fps out of the 8" AR barrel. (on average)

 

[M1key]

I was getting about 1100fps or so out of a PC9 with WWB 147gr. Here is some more data I compiled:

Ruger PC9 Ballistics: from www.grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm
Rem Golden Saber 124gr +p jhp 1397 1406 1414 1389 1409 1397 1416 1416 1414 1384 avg 1404.2 s.dev 11.736
Speer Gold Dot 115gr jhp +p+ 1544 1643 1629 1653 1650 1641 1658 1652 1657 1620 avg 1634.7 s.dev 34.144
Winchester Ranger 127gr jhp +p+ 1368 1400 1413 1382 1392 1411 1389 1390 1370 1388 avg 1390.3 s.dev 15.004
Rem 115gr jhp +p+ 1577 1595 1568 1589 avg 1582.25
Fiocchi 115gr fmj 1307 1395 1344 1389 1381 1380 1340 1384 1373 1405 avg 1369.8 s.dev 30.151
Fed Premium Hydrashok 124gr jhp 1229 1307 1291 1319 1290 1308 1309 1287 1291 1299 avg 1293 s.dev 24.806

**********************************************************************************************
From: FirearmsTactical.com
9mm 147 grain Federal HydraShok JHP, 11/27/90 (Marlin M9):

Test Gun Barrel Length Velocity Bare Gelatin Clothed Gelatin
Penetration Expansion Penetration Expansion
Marlin M9 16.5" 995 fps 21.35" 0.37" 15.60" 0.60"

*********************************************************************************************
From GlockTalk: Joe Mamma
Temperature: 40 degrees F
Ammo Description /Product Code /average velocity with G-17 /average velocity with Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Federal Hydrashok 124 gr +P+ JHP (P9HS3G1) 1167, 1321 fps
Federal NATO, 124gr FMJ (M882)1114, 1231 fps
Winchester USA Brand ("White Box") Hollow Points 115gr JHP (USA9JHP) 1149, 1305 fps
Winchester USA Brand ("White Box") Hollow Points 147gr JHP (USA9JHP2) 1020, 1117 fps
CCI Blazer Brass 115 gr FMJ (5200) 1120, 1299 fps
Sellier & Bellot 115 gr FMJ (80166-00902) 1162, 1296 fps
Geco/Dynamit Nobel 124gr (23364-12585) 1129, 1256 fps
Magtech 147gr "FMC-FLAT" (891798-001347) 969, 1096 fps

*********************************************************************************************
From GlockTalk: WinstonSmith
A friend of mine in Kentucky just did some chrono measurements on the Keltec Sub2000 and a Kahr PM9 with a 3" barrel. All measurements at 15 ft from muzzle and at 64 degrees F. Here are the results:
Win 147 gr JHP - Five shots through the SUB-2000:
1111 FPS
1139 FPS
1119 FPS
1136 FPS
1130 FPS

1139 FPS - High
1127 FPS - Average
1111 FPS - Low
28 Extreme Spread
11 Standard Deviation

Win 147 gr JHP - Five shots through the Kahr PM9:
938 FPS
923 FPS
910 FPS
934 FPS
915 FPS

938 FPS - High
924 FPS - Average
910 FPS - Low
28 Extreme Spread
11 Standard Deviation

Maybe there is some intermediate barrel length that would do even better but the 16" barrel is clearly faster than the Kahr PM9 or Glock 17.
**********************************************************************************************

Test-Fire Hi-Point/ATI 9mm Carbine 16 inch barrel

Load
(brand, bullet weight, type) Velocity(fps) Group Size(inches)

Black Hills 115 FMJ 1,334 fps 1-1/2
Black Hills 115 JHP +P 1,555 fps 1-3/4
Hornady 115 JHP XTP 1,264 fps 3/4
Hornady 125 JHP XTP 1,221 fps 1-5/8
Winchester 124 BEB 1,194 fps 1-1/4
Winchester 147 SXT 1,080 fps 1-1/2
Winchester 147 SilverTip HP 1,168 fps 1

Notes: Group size the product of 9 shots at 25 yards.



M

 

[Pete D.]

Speed of sound is ~1126fps depending on temperature.

And altitude (air pressure...or is that merely a function of temperature?).
See this link - http://www.fighter-planes.com/jetmach1.htm
Just for general information.
Subsonic is different in Denver than in San Francisco by about 20 feet per second - not enough to worry about.

Pete

 

[StrawHat]

On another forum, the folks are working up catsneeze loads in a variety of calibers, including 45-70. They only use cast bullets and load them to slow speeds but they are quiet and accrate. Some of the favorites (or at least most researched) have been 45-70, 30 WCF, 45 long Colt, and other large bore cartridges.