Quantcast

Help me find a quiet rifle ...

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Tndeerhunter82, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    7,130
    @Tndeerhunter82 - something which may not be obvious for a new shooter: The 6.5 Creedmoor and 308win only fit into a large frame AR-10, and do not fit into an AR-15. The 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC fit into the small frame AR-15.

    The jump from a 15 to a 10 is a fairly significant increase in weight, but also in cost. I have generally told folks to plan on $1000 to build a proper quality AR-15, effectively double that for an AR-10. There is also far more variability in propriety in AR-10/LFAR’s, such building and rebuilding them takes far greater understanding of parts and brand compatibility than AR-15’s.

    I don’t say this to discourage you from buying/building an AR-10/LFAR, but only to shine a light on these 3 significant differences between building 15’s and 10’s.
     
  2. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,929
    Location:
    Mississippi
    I think it’s hard to beat a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for deer out to 300 yards or so. Either is a fine choice with a 16”-18” barrel. Throw whatever suppressor you like on the end of it and you’ll be quiet and effective as far as you want to be. You could go with a much shorter barrel and build it as a pistol or SBR, I just haven’t decided if an SBR is worth the hassle to me or not.
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  3. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    8,159
    Location:
    Middle Tn
    A guy I went to school with hunted in a neighborhood with a 30-06. It was technically legal since he was out of the city limits, but lots of noise complaints. He eventually figured out that cutting holes in a plastic 55 gallon drum and shooting through the drum contained a lot of the noise. That worked out fine for him because he had a relatively narrow safe area to shoot so he just sat looking over the drum and would shoot through it when a deer walked by.
     
  4. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,139
    Location:
    Centralia Washington
    No tax stamp necessary!
     
  5. dranrab

    dranrab Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    253
    Location:
    Metairie LA
    Can you give me a link to the one you have?
     
    Demi-human and <*(((>< like this.
  6. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,846
    Location:
    Burleson,Texas
    If I were in your situation I would do what we did when it started building up around my buds land where we have hunted for the last 35 years. We started using lever action 44 mag rifles for less intense noise and shorter range ability. A PCC is a lot quieter than a bottle necked centerfire round. You do lose the long range ability but the way we set up to hunt all our shots are 80 yards or less. The 44 mag round knocks deer right over and you don't even have to use full power rounds either. A 200-240gr bullet going 1200fps will kill any deer that walks within 100 yards.

    I shot at one deer with a reduced 30-30 load (and missed) and my bud who was on the other side of the tree line a hundred yards away asked me at the end of the day if I had shot. He wasn't sure where the sound came from or if it was even a gun shot. So you can do it without a suppressor just not the 300 yard range.
     
    gotboostvr likes this.
  7. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    7,130
    I fully agree with this. I can’t say there’s any reason to choose an AR-10/LR-308/LFAR over an AR-15 for 0-400 yard deer hunting.
     
    Skylerbone and <*(((>< like this.
  8. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,517
    Agreed, I have an AR10 stripped lower just sitting around and never got around to building it as I can't get over how cumbersome in compared to a well thought out AR15 an AR10 is. I'll eventually build an AR10 but it will be a GenII lower and will be making it as light and handy as I can.

    The 6.8/6.5 variants in the AR15 just make too much sense, it is the perfect marriage for balance of power/velocity/terminal performance/range in the AR15.
     
    adcoch1 likes this.
  9. Tndeerhunter82

    Tndeerhunter82 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    @Varminterror @<*(((>< @marksman13
    Ok guys so I have a question as far as knock down power goes for these two rifles .. 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC
    Which of the two is gonna hit harder and punch through further on a deer ?
    Another thing im reading about is lack of blood trail with these calibers , do any of you guys have field experience in seeing this first hand ?
    Just a couple things I had on my mind I want cleared up ...
     
  10. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,139
    Location:
    Centralia Washington
    For 250-300 yards max I would go with a 6.5 grendel. I have it and the 300 blackout and the 6.5 is the answer for distance.
     
  11. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    7,130
    Flip a coin. They’re so ridiculously similar, nothing will be discernible between the two at 0-400.

    Put bullets through hearts with these and you won’t need blood trails - you’ll have a dead deer laying within 50 yards of impact.

    Here’s a 6.5 Grendel shot heart of mine from 2 winters ago:

    161DC78B-8702-4312-BFDD-266BAE740961.jpeg
     
    <*(((>< likes this.
  12. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,517
    Between the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8SPC II, as was said by @Varminterror discernible difference will be negligible. 0-200 yards and 6.8 SPC II does have an advantage, over 200-250 yards and the BC's of the 6.5 bullet start to take over.


    6.8 SPC II Pros (as compared to the 6.5 Grendel)
    -Better case design for AR15 (extraction, chambering, etc.)
    -Stronger bolt design
    -Excellent hunting projectiles available (85gr Barnes TTSX, 90gr Barnes TSX, 90gr Speer Gold dots, 100gr Nosler Accubonds, 110gr Nosler Accubonds, 120gr Hornady SST)
    -Loses less performance with shorter barrels than the 6.5 Grendel.
    -Better magazine feeding, Grendel has had problems feeding

    6.5 Grendel Pros (as compared to the 6.8 SPC II)
    -Better bullet ballistics
    -Better sectional densities
    -Cheap steel case Wolf fodder
    -Better market support (a recent development)
    -With the 6.5 caliber infatuation that is happening I foresee the market support for the Grendel to only get better
    -Has greater gains with longer barrels than the 6.8 SPC II.
    -Better long distance target round, less wind deflection and velocity loss at distance


    I'm firmly in the 6.8 SPC II group because I feel it is a better round for my uses, especially in it is my semi-auto hunting platform, which is why I own one in the first place. The bullet selection for hunting with the 6.8 SPC II is fantastic, and it does have more energies at closer ranges (albeit negligible). Take your pick either one will serve the purpose you have stated. If you don't reload there will be better factory loadings for the Grendel, and foresee this only increasing in disparity going forward. The factory loadings for the 6.8 SPC II are pretty anemic, SSA used to make some "house-fire" loads that were screaming (90gr. 3,000fps+) but those days are over now that Nosler bought SSA.

    Take all my points above with the knowledge that I don't have a first hand account of 6.5 Grendel, it is all secondary experience. But most of my points are verifiable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
    Gordon and marksman13 like this.
  13. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,314
    Location:
    Minnesota
  14. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,929
    Location:
    Mississippi
    You can literally flip a coin between 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel when it comes to hunting. No animal is going to know the difference between a 120 grain SST or a 123 grain SST. I’ve never experienced an issue with blood trailing with either cartridge. I’ve only needed to track one animal due to a poor shot with my 6.8 SPC (scope was off due to exposed windage turret). Deer was hit pretty far back and was not recovered that day. Bled extremely well. Deer was shot by a friend two days later and he could not believe the animal was still breathing. Bullet entered just below the backstrap and left a nickel sized exit hole on the way out. My fault for not checking to ensure that both turrets were at zero.

    6.5 Grendel is within a chin whisker of factory 6.5x55 ammo and that stuff has been killing everything on four legs for over a hundred year. Nothing wrong with that round.

    I’ve shot more pigs than I can count with my 6.8 and a handful with my 6.5 Grendel. Both cartridges are effective and I would say both cartridges are more effective than 300 BLK. When we skin pigs, we can tell if the pig was shot with a 6.8/6.5, 300 BLK or 458 SOCOM and it’s usually pretty easy to tell the difference.
     
  15. Tndeerhunter82

    Tndeerhunter82 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    @Varminterror @marksman13 @<*(((><
    Thanks for everything guys , so as far as bullet drop goes with these two , with them sighted in dead on at 100 yards , how much of a drop is there at 200 and 300 , will I still be aiming dead center or will I need to be holding high at the longer distance .
    I ask this because I plan to shoot a basic scope 3x9x40 , no adjustments
     
  16. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,900
    Not flat shooting at all but 300 yards isn’t a deal breaker and it’s quiet as far as rifles go.

     
    Gordon likes this.
  17. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,517
    A 16” 6.8 SPC II should be able to push with ease a 120SST to 2,450-2,500fps
    100yrds = 0
    200yrds = 5.5”
    300yrds = 19.5”

    A 20” 6.8 SPC II can push a 110gr Accubond to just over 2,800fps
    100yrds = 0
    200yrds = 4”
    300yrds = 14”

    Others can respond with 6.5 Grendel loads, it’ll be similar
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
    Gordon likes this.
  18. dranrab

    dranrab Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    253
    Location:
    Metairie LA
    Thanks for the info. Based on your experience, what do you think they would do to the sound of a 22 magnum? The description says they are intended for semi-autos, would using them on a bolt action be an issue. Thanks for the info, this is all new to me.
     
  19. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Southern Oregon Coast
    A brief and not confirmed internet search turns up interesting info and ideas.

    40 states allow hunting with suppressors. Your odds are pretty good. Check with your state’s laws.

    an integrally suppressed barrel is an option. They run about $1100 for a complete AR upper. Good combination for 300 blackout. One source claimed you need 2 tax stamps for this combo- one for the barrel and one for the rifle (this makes no sense to me, internet info).
     
  20. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Southern Oregon Coast
    I go the other direction. I like a marlin 1895 in 45-70. You want a blood trail? Limit your shots to inside 200 yards and use the hammer of Thor.
     
  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    25,931
    In the first place, you shouldn't be sighted in at 100 if you anticipate shooting at 200-300.
    If you sight in at 200 or so, the midrange height will be a lot less than the drop from a 100 zero.
     
  22. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    7,130
    You’re going to have to hold over for 300 yards. Even using a MUCH faster and flatter shooting cartridge, 300’s asking too much for a reasonable MPBR. With a 6.5 or 6.8, even using a 225yrd MPBR, you’ll see about 6” of drop below line of sight at 300 - too much for ethical hunting in my book. There’s not enough horsepower in the AR-15 to 1) produce a true 300yrd MPBR, and 2) deliver enough impact to forgive a 5 inch miss. You’re going to have to hold over for range. You won’t have to hold over much, but you WILL have to hold over. That’s not to say even a 300 win mag forgives a miss by 4-5”, but rather to express the fact 300 is simply too far for holding dead on.

    Grab a graduated reticle, keep your magnification in mind (second focal plane optic), learn your short range trajectory, and live happy. You won’t have to hold over exactly 6.05” (from a 225yrd zero), but you need to be holding over for 300 - putting 4-8” under your wire and missing by 2” is a lot closer than holding dead on and missing by 6”. Personally, I zero for 100 and hold (or dial) for range - I have too much grief if an animal suffers at my hand to risk sending a shot with a huge error margin.
     
    gotboostvr and adcoch1 like this.
  23. d2wing

    d2wing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,646
    Maybe a .224 Valkyrie would be flat enough and have enough energy at that range. I have successfully killed 300 lbs. deer with a .223. Blows the heart up. But most of those are under 150 yards. That said I would consider a long barrel bolt action. I use a Tikka in 7-08. It has a threaded barrel. I find a bolt action doesn't rattle, and is lighter and less bulky. But they do have advantages as well. Low recoil, less noise faster follow-up shots if needed. Longer barrels are quieter.
    90 gr .224 Valkyrie hundred yard zero drops about 11 inches at 300 yards and still has over 1000 ft lbs of energy. And it fits an AR-15 chambered for it. It is based on the 6.8 SPC so it used the same bolt and mags.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    stillquietvoice likes this.
  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    7,130
    The 88grn Hornady load is still 5.5” below line of sight at 300 from a 225 yard zero.

    I usually prefer not to speak in absolutes, but as a frequent experimenter in AR cartridges and as an incurable distance shooter, there really aren’t many cartridges on the market which will truly offer an MPBR over 300 yards, especially none in the AR platform. I’m sure some guys are happy with a +/-4” MPBR standard. I am not, especially with a cartridge with such little “extra oomph” - as the case with any 2.3” AR cartridge.
     
  25. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,314
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Range is not a big deal assuming you have time to use a rangefinder (thats a big assumtion), but the wind is another thing entirely at that range. I have learned from my coyote hunting days I'm not great at estimating either.
     
    Gtscotty and stillquietvoice like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice