What could I have done better?

[TraditionalCatholic]

I am an altar server at a local Catholic church nearby. It is not in a great area of town, but it's not horrible either. I have run into shady people around there before.

I needed to use the restroom before Mass on Sunday, so I went down the basement where the only public restrooms are, and after I had finished, I walked to the sinks to wash up, and noticed a guy next to me at the other sink, who obviously was carrying a gun, as it was printing really badly.

My first reaction was to get the heck outta dodge, but decided that heading for the door would put my back towards him, giving him a huge advantage. That, and the fact that I was pretty close to him, so the distance would have hindered him drawing and firing. Running was also out of the question due to my floor-length cassock. So I politely motioned to the gun, and said "excuse me, but, uh, it looks like you're printing a bit." He glanced down, and readjusted his slacks so that it didn't show as bad. "That would have been pretty embarrassing, wouldn't it," he said, with a laugh. He asked if I carried. Now, I am only 18, so obviously, I can't carry. But I decided that stating I did not would assure him that I was unarmed, something which I didn't want to do. I lied and told him that I did.

Anyway, he just chatted a bit, and that was that. Now, the whole time, I was kinda worried that maybe this guy wasn't a permit holder, and he was illegally carrying. He still could have been, for all I know.

I guess my question is, what could I have done better in this situation, or, am I being paranoid, and I shouldn't have worried about it at all?

 

[Big Boy]

or, am I being paranoid, and I shouldn't have worried about it at all?

Yep. You got it.


Not every one with a gun is a bad guy. Not to mention your average thug isn't wearing slacks...

 

[Sam1911]

Maybe there is more to the story. Was there something that gave off a vibe that told you to be concerned? Was he acting in a menacing way or did he look out of place? What set your "spidy sense" tingling?

Surely you were not thrown for such a loop simply because of the obvious presence of the gun?

You say you were in strong fear that you'd be vulnerable if you turned your back and walked away. Why? Obviously a man armed with a pocket knife, or his bare hands, (or a better concealed handgun, in fact) can be just as deadly as a man with a gun that you can see. IF he has some ill intent, and IF his ill intent is directed at you. But we don't consider the presence of a holstered weapon to be a threat. So, what was the risk you sought to avoid by not leaving as you'd intended?

By what reasoning did you come to conclude that this man in your church might have a motive for harming or killing you?

Obviously, if you are unarmed, and untrained in unarmed self-defense, and more or less trapped in a confined space with a potential adversary, there is little you could have probably done to prevail had he been intent on killing you. But that would be true if he had a folding knife, a sharpened screw-driver, or an empty bottle, too.

 

[xXxplosive]

IMO....................Mind Your Own Business.

-Stay Away From Stupid people.
-Stay Out Of Stupid Places.
-Don't Do Stupid Things.

Where would this fit in.....?

 

[Hardware]

Sounds like you did the right thing. If I was printing I'd appreciate being told. Besides, it's not like we have "gundar" and know when someone else is a gunny.

 

[DAP90]

Whatever your suspicions were before; his reaction to you pointing out his printing tells you everything you need to know about his intentions. He adjusted and then made small talk. Not the actions of a “shady person”.

He probably asked questions to see if you shared a common interest and possibly to gauge your comfort level. A little embarrassment on his part would be normal.

Just remember, if he is an honest citizen and the church does have the occasional shady person around your better off with him there than without him; generally speaking of course.

The biggest danger he likely represents is eating more than his fair share of the brownies at the next church social.

I think you did the right thing pointing out the printing. I’d want to know; especially in a private place where I could adjust without alarming anyone.

 

[ZeBool]

I live in PA. In order to carry concealed while out and about, we need a PA LTCF or reciprocal permit. I have two. If I see someone carrying a gun, I personally don't care if they have either, especially if they appear to be:
A) Of good character, or
B) Well dressed (exponentially less important than A)

Permits are nothing but a money game for States that require them. Keeping and BEARING arms is a right guaranteed by our Constitution. What we have with with the carry permit system would be akin to purchasing a permit to exercise one's right to free speech. Silly isn't it?

 

[Exmasonite]

but decided that heading for the door would put my back towards him, giving him a huge advantage.

I guess if i felt that vulnerable/at risk by this individual, the LAST thing i would have done would be to ask him point black about it. A little bit of a disconnect, no offense intended. If i were that concerned/threatened, i'd probably have left the room and contacted the authorities. Otherwise, i probably wouldn't have said anything.

 

[TraditionalCatholic]

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I thought. Being that I still live with my parents, I told them about it, and they were a little worried. They aren't anti-gun, but they aren't really totally pro-gun either. I wasn't put off by his demeanor at all, he was well-dressed, not hanging around, acting shady, or anything like that. Thanks for answering my dumb questions!

 

[LibShooter]

Does your church have a policy about carrying in the building? Some do. As sort of an official representative of the church at that moment, maybe you had a responsibility to bring it up.

Also, since you were in a basement rest room, dressed in a cassock and staring at a stranger's "gun carry area" it might have been a good idea to let him know why you were so interested in his midsection. I'm just sayin'.

 

[K-Rod]

So you see a guy CC'ing a gun because he's "Printing" & you instantly assume he's a bad guy & start worrying about how to safely get away? I'm curious, if you at 18 could legally CC & were in fact packing, what would have been your first impulse to do in this situation?

 

[TraditionalCatholic]

First of all, I wasn't even looking at his "gun carry area" I will soon be entering the seminary, and wouldn't ever look there, so please don't get the wrong impression, but this was VERY obvious. I generally avoid eye contact in a public restroom, so I didn't look at his face at first, and I was looking pretty much straight ahead. The problem was his belt was evidently way too tight, which caused the gun to print really badly. And, of course, I most certainly was NOT "staring" at his "gun carry area" either. I simply noticed it as I started to walk away from the sink. This particular church DOES allow legal concealed carry permit holders to carry when in the building, at least, they do not have signs there. I do know other people who attend the church there and they also carry when attending Mass.

In response to K-Rod, I did not assume that he was a bad guy, and I hope I didn't give that impression. It's just hard not to think about the "what-if" in this situation. If I had been legally carrying, I absolutely would not have even thought about making a move for the gun, but my alert level would definitely have increased.

 

[Cop Bob]

Not really enough info, his dress demeanor..etc...

But obviously there were no real bad "indicators" or your gut probably would have told you to take a different course...

Sounds like you played it right, might have been an off-duty Cop, (some of them do go to church) or a licensed permit holder... obviously not an "Evil Doer" (sorry Dubya)

You did ok... your still here! I'm Glad your conscious told you to ask about it... shows your thinking.

Don't sweat the petty stuff.... pet the sweaty stuff.....

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I did not assume that he was a bad guy, and I hope I didn't give that impression.

I think this is what gave that impression:

My first reaction was to get the heck outta dodge, but decided that heading for the door would put my back towards him, giving him a huge advantage. That, and the fact that I was pretty close to him, so the distance would have hindered him drawing and firing. Running was also out of the question due to my floor-length cassock. So I politely motioned to the gun, and said "excuse me, but, uh, it looks like you're printing a bit." He glanced down, and readjusted his slacks so that it didn't show as bad. "That would have been pretty embarrassing, wouldn't it," he said, with a laugh. He asked if I carried. Now, I am only 18, so obviously, I can't carry. But I decided that stating I did not would assure him that I was unarmed, something which I didn't want to do. I lied and told him that I did.

When you start carrying, how do you want people to react to you and your firearm?

 

[Crusader103]

I think it's pretty obvious by now but the simple fact that someone is carrying a concealed weapon in church is not in and of itself disconcerting. In fact, it is quite ordinary.

As an instructor with a bit of a reputation for active shooter response training, I get a fair number of calls from churches. I have assisted several in creating actual programs. Nonetheless, most churches do not have an active program but that does not mean members are not carrying. Quite the contrary.

On a personal note, I recently moved and found a new church - by most standards a very conservative Bible believing, Bible teaching congregation. The pastor recently invited my wife and I, as well as several others, to lunch after service. They learned a little about me and before lunch was over, I learned that there were four guns at the table (there were six couples).

One of our church members often provides the CCW training to other church members. Nobody ever mentions a thing in church, but absent some other reason, I sure wouldn't be disturbed by the printing of a weapon on another member.

 

[macadore]

Chill. Most of us here carry handguns and never threaten anyone. I wear a fanny pack with a Glock 32 when riding my bicycle. The police ride up beside me and chat me up all the time. I know what they're doing and chat back. I'm not breaking the law and enjoy the company. I have become friends with some of them.

 

[luigi]

Now, the whole time, I was kinda worried that maybe this guy wasn't a permit holder, and he was illegally carrying. He still could have been, for all I know

.

I think this falls into the NUNYA category

 

[o Unforgiven o]

I don't understand... You say you saw a man in the bathroom of a church who was printing.

You also said;

I wasn't put off by his demeanor at all, he was well-dressed, not hanging around, acting shady, or anything like that.

Yet your first thought was;

My first reaction was to get the heck outta dodge, but decided that heading for the door would put my back towards him, giving him a huge advantage. That, and the fact that I was pretty close to him, so the distance would have hindered him drawing and firing. Running was also out of the question due to my floor-length cassock.

Then you had a short conversation about carrying with the well-dressed normal acting man and yet you then thought;

But I decided that stating I did not would assure him that I was unarmed, something which I didn't want to do. I lied and told him that I did.

I don't understand how seeing a well-dressed, unassuming and calm demeanored man in a church bathroom right before mass led you to assess your options for an escape route.

I'm gonna go with paranoid for $100 Alex.

 

[NMGonzo]

I live in PA. In order to carry concealed while out and about, we need a PA LTCF or reciprocal permit. I have two. If I see someone carrying a gun, I personally don't care if they have either, especially if they appear to be:
A) Of good character, or
B) Well dressed (exponentially less important than A)

Permits are nothing but a money game for States that require them. Keeping and BEARING arms is a right guaranteed by our Constitution. What we have with with the carry permit system would be akin to purchasing a permit to exercise one's right to free speech. Silly isn't it?

As a former PA resident I concur.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

Was the gun in a holster? Criminals almost never use holsters. If it was in a holster, you can rest assured that the person was likely not up to nefarious deeds. The presence of a holster has shown itself to be an invaluable tool for assessing a situation on the street. Every time I've encountered an gun being carried without a holster, it's been by someone that wasn't allowed to have it.

 

[Oyeboten]

It is good of course to be aware of various details of other people.

Nothing wrong if one notices someone else is 'printing' or is m-a-y-b-e printing.

All in all, situational awareness is very important.

Within which, other people's behavior, deportment, manner, what are they actualy 'doing', and so on, is of interest contextually.

If someone one sees to be 'printing', or, someone whom one earlier saw to be 'printing' is later seen to be maneuvering or meeting others in some supicious way, or conducting themselves supiciously, or getting into some sort of temprement or making demands or giving harsh 'Orders', then, of course, it is good if one knows they are armed, in order to countinance their demeanor or behavior more informedly.

Otherwise, many people Carry, and, some of them may 'print' on occasion in complete innocense...so, it is fine by my lights, if one feels comfortable to do so, to politely point out to someone if they are 'printing', just as a courtesy to them, just as it would be to mention to them if their Shoe was untied or their Fly were left open.

 

[S&Wfan]

Relax. There are tons of good folks legally carrying guns all around you on an everyday basis if you live in a "free" state.

In all your years you've never been threatened or been shot by a single one of them, nor will you be in your entire lifetime.

Studying soon to be a "shepherd," there may come a day when you need a good "sheepdog." That's what us good guys are for . . . and they typical "wolf" rarely attacks because he can't tell the sheepdogs from the sheeple.

 

[smince]

I'd be interested to know where TraditionalCatholic lives.

This mindset of his may be the common reaction of those he is around daily.

 

[TraditionalCatholic]

I am in St. Louis, Missouri. I come from a family who is mostly anti-gun. My father is the only exception. I think it's mostly how I was raised, and that gun paranoia does sometimes show through.

 

[Sam1911]

Good on ya to recognize that, and with your age and experience it isn't terribly hard to understand. I think there are some valuable learning points here: both that folks exercising their rights within the laws of their states don't really care to be assumed by others to be dangerous and/or homicidal; and, that even folks favorably inclined to RKBA (to say nothing of the masses of "neutral" folks) may not yet be completely at ease with seeing a firearm where they did not expect to.