what criminals will do if a handgun bans work

[Hawken50]

...and there are no hand guns anywhere.

A National Institute of Justice survey of felons in state prisons found that 72% of felons who use handguns said they would switch to sawed-off shotguns if handguns became unavailable. (Handgun Bans: Peril or Protection? The Risks and Benefits of Handgun Prohibition (238K), Kopel, David B. Also Wright, James D. and Peter H. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and their Firearms, Aldine De Gruyter, 1986).

This means there might be fewer murder attempts with a firearm, but more murder victims could be the result. Shotgun wounds at close range are generally much more often fatal than handgun wounds.

"Shotgun injuries have not been compared with other bullet wounds of the abdomen as they are a thing apart ... at close range, they are as deadly as a cannon."
(R. Taylor, Gunshot Wounds of the Abdomen, 177 Annals of Surgery 174- 75, 1973. Cited in Kopel above).

"At close range, survival is rare"
Gestring ML, Geller ER, Akkad N, Bongiovanni PJ. Shotgun slug injuries: case report and literature review . J Trauma. 1996; 40:650-653. (See Ballistics).

Criminological studies show "that anywhere from 54 percent to about 80 percent of homicides occur in circumstances that would easily permit the use of a long gun."
( Kleck Gary, "Handgun-Only Gun Control: A Policy Disaster in the Making," in Firearms and Violence:Issues of Public Policy, pp. 186-94.

to sum it up, only 5% of hand gun shootings result in death. with the alternative "survival is rare."

so even if we equate "rare" with a 50/50 chance of survival, lets see-

100 handgun shootings, legal and not=
5 deaths

72 (due to the fact that only 72% of criminals would switch) sawed off shotgun shootings, none legal = 36 deaths

add to that a 0% self defence rate. you have to figure in the fact that you are 72% less likey to be killed if you resist with a handgun.

yeah, if there were no handguns, the world would be a better place.

from guncite.com

 

[TMAS]

No big surprise there. It's easier to hit someone with a shotgun too.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

But isn't there a law against sawed-off shotguns?

The antis just can't understand the fact that it's only us law-abiding citizens that abide by the law.

Excellent point and backup data Hawken50!

 

[Pilgrim]

A National Institute of Justice survey of felons in state prisons found that 72% of felons who use handguns said they would switch to sawed-off shotguns if handguns became unavailable. (Handgun Bans: Peril or Protection? The Risks and Benefits of Handgun Prohibition (238K), Kopel, David B. Also Wright, James D. and Peter H. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and their Firearms, Aldine De Gruyter, 1986).

I guess the logical progression of a handgun ban is hacksaw blades will have to be strictly controlled.

Pilgrim

 

[Hawken50]

But isn't there a law against sawed-off shotguns?

The antis just can't understand the fact that it's only us law-abiding citizens that abide by the law.

Excellent point and backup data Hawken50!

thanks, i just edited it to add that fact that 0% of sawed off shotgun shootings would be legal

anyone who finds themselves frequently at odds with the antis should check out that site

www.guncite.com

 

[Zundfolge]

Even if they don't go to sawed off shotties, they'll be able to over power smaller people still so women and the elderly will not be any safer.

read the link in my sig.

 

[M-Rex]

...and there are no hand guns anywhere.

They'll continue to get handguns through nefarious means just as they always have. It will have 100% no impact on feral man.

 

[losangeles]

But isn't there a law against sawed-off shotguns

?

Great point! The criminals will have to watch that one. lol

 

[Lupinus]

When no guns are avalible they will make their own. The Isrealis early on made guns in basments.

To make a gun that is on par with some guns made in the world is hard but to make a very basic gun is easy. Hell I have seen a homemade 22 made by a 14 year old. Would I want to put a few hundred rounds through it anytime soon? No...but making a gun that you can shoot someone with isn't hard. After all when you have a gun to someones head you only need one bullet and doesn't exactly have to be a huge caliber bullet.

And when all else fails there will be knives baseball bats and fists. Guess maybe when all else fails we will start banning the use of hands and at birth remove everyones hands. Course them you are left with a stump to jab people with...

 

[Hawken50]

They'll continue to get handguns through nefarious means just as they always have. It will have 100% no impact on feral man.

that's just the point, even if the antis had there way and every handgun on the planet simply vanished, things would probably get worse, not better as they would have you believe.

 

[Art Eatman]

In the 1985 Wright/Rossi/Daly book, "Under The Gun", they spoke of interviews with prisoners in Florida's Raiford prison who had been imprisoned for gun-related violent crime.

All said that if handguns were not available, they would turn to long guns and hacksaws.

W/R/D went on to note that of people shot with handguns, 1/3 die and 2/3 live. They found that the converse is true with long guns. So: I conclude that if you "magicked" all handguns out of existence, the death rate from misuse of firearms would double.

Art

 

[X Who]

No big surprise there. It's easier to hit someone with a shotgun too.

Actually, at close range (wondering what they mean here), a shotgun pattern is very small (depending on the choke - full or cylinder bore or ...). It still needs care in aiming for a decent hit.

Even if the criminals did not turn to shotguns or rifles, the rate of injury/death may go up (I've seen an essay on this - I think in: "Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out", edited by Don B. Kates, Jr., North River Press, Inc., copyright 1979). The reasons are: Armed robbery generally produces larger amounts than other robbery, criminals attack more victims to produce the same gain, probability of use of a weapon is far higher when the weapon is not a gun (club, knife, fists, etc.), and weaker victims (chosen due to lack of the lethal threat from a gun) have less chance of survival of the trauma of the attack.

 

[Koobuh]

at birth remove everyones hands. Course them you are left with a stump to jab people with...

Remember, when they cut your hands off, you suddenly have two nice sharp bones to poke them in the eyes with.

 

[Oldtimer]

If citizens are banned from owning handguns, it will become "open season" on police and military personnel who would end up being the only ones "authorized" to have them.

While it might cause the bad guys to saw off the barrels and butt stocks of shotguns, they'd do the same thing with rifles. If they didn't have a rifle or shotgun to cut down, but could get their hands on ammo, they'd resort to making "zip" guns and single-shot "pipe" guns. The more industrious bad guys, who are already "well-established" in the drug trade, would merely make a few calls to their foreign connections, and there would be a FLOOD of handguns and ammo coming in with their drug shipments.

Do you remember "Handgun Control, Inc."? Back in the 1970's, when it was initially organized, their leaders SWORE that their agenda was only to disarm the citizens of handguns. We now know what their TRUE agenda was!

Back in the 1980's, when the "assault rifle" hysteria was at full bloom, the "weapons of choice" of the bad guys were HANDGUNS! One of the most recent FBI reviews disclosed that handguns were STILL the "weapons of choice" for criminals!

HMM! Why don't we ban CRIMINALS, instead of disarming the law-abiding, honest, God-fearing, tax-paying CITIZENS?

 

[Oldtimer]

Almost forgot to mention this! If a sweeping law was passed that would impose a total ban on the ownership of handguns, it would MAKE a vast amount of "instant criminals"!

 

[The Viking]

Almost forgot to mention this! If a sweeping law was passed that would impose a total ban on the ownership of handguns, it would MAKE a vast amount of "instant criminals"!

Well, let the gun grabbers themselves try to enforce that law...could be interesting

 

[scbair]

True story. In the 70s & 80s, I was a LEO with a metro PD. This is Dixie, folks, and my sergeant at the time was a grizzled old veteran. A reporter was doing background for a story on police work, its conditions, rewards, dangers, etc. (at least, I think that was the type article; it's been awhile!). The blissninny reporter blithely commented that police work must be much safer than it was prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, as that law had banned importation of "Saturday Night Specials" (the reporter's term, not mine...). While the reporter and his intended article are fuzzy in my memory, ol' Sarge's response is clearly etched:

"Uh huh. In the old days, a typical street punk would pick up a cheap, junk revolver made of pot metal. If he pulled the trigger, the piece might or might not function. If it functioned, the cartridge might or might not fire. If it functioned & fired, he might or might not hit me. If he actually managed to hit me, it might or might not do serious damage.

Nowadays, he can't find the cheap piece of junk, so he'll buy an old, beat-up single-barreled shotgun and a hacksaw. In the history of the world, none of those old shotguns has ever failed to work! Modern 12 gauge shells are extremely reliable. When that piece fires, anything standing in front of it is gonna be disintegrated.

Thanks a helluva lot!"

 

[twency]

Originally Posted by TMAS
No big surprise there. It's easier to hit someone with a shotgun too.

Actually, at close range (wondering what they mean here), a shotgun pattern is very small (depending on the choke - full or cylinder bore or ...). It still needs care in aiming for a decent hit.

I suspect what TMAS may have meant is that a sawed-odd makes a better cudgel than an AirLight J Frame.
_____________
-twency

 

[R.H. Lee]

The premise is absurd. You cannot 'disinvent' the handgun. It will always be available. You can restrict/limit its possession by (some) lawful people, but you can't make it 'disappear'. The 'poll' is meaningless.

 

[boofus]

A single 12 gauge 2-3/4" shell loaded with 00 buckshot is equal to a 9 round burst from a MP5 or Glock 18 submachinegun.

9 x .33cal pellets flying at 1350fps

Of course they still aren't as dangerous as those nasty black 'assault weapons'. Which is why EBRs and handguns should be banned and John Kerry can do photo ops and crawl around on his stomach with a harmless sporting shotgun.

 

[Hawken50]

It will always be available. You can restrict/limit its possession by (some) lawful people, but you can't make it 'disappear'. The 'poll' is meaningless.

i'd imagine that there have been quite a few instances that criminals have had trouble finding a handguns an no trouble getting ahold of a shotgun and hacksaw. for instance, said criminal breacks into average joe deer hunters house. no handguns to be found, but low and behold, tucked into the corner of a closest is a single shot shotgun. hell, they could steal the hacksaw from the same house to save themselves a trip.

 

[Kim]

There is always a big whopping obvious lie to the leftist utopian world. Kinda like John Lennon utopia song "Imagine" sound all lovely and kind. But it is a lie. It can only come about with eventual totalitarian measures. Therefore the BIG LIE. A true utopia which will never be reached can only be approximated with allowing the most individual FREEDOM. If everyone owned firearms and then everyone never used them for murder or aid in a crime then and only then would one speck of a true utopia exsist. The leftists have it backwards as usual. And yes Lennon was just another dreamer and I might add of nightmares.













this is the p

 

[Gunpacker]

Won't matter at all. All criminals have cared about forever is to be better armed than the victims. If victims don't have handguns, a knife or bat is far more effective.

 

[Hawken50]

You "think" 100 million pistols will just "disappear", right?

I don't think that. that is was the antis want to happen, i'm just pointing out what factual evidence has shown will happen if they get thier way.

 

[TMAS]

Actually, at close range (wondering what they mean here), a shotgun pattern is very small (depending on the choke - full or cylinder bore or ...). It still needs care in aiming for a decent hit.

What I meant was that it is easier to hit your target with a shotgun than a pistol at reasonable ranges. I'm not talking about turkey guns with tight chokes. 00Buck in a shotgun can produce a wide pattern.

I may be wrong, but bullets retrieved can be linked to specific handgun, (seen it on TV) but it is much harder to link retrieved shot to a specific shotgun. Im not talking about primer marks left on spent shells.

Funny, idiotic thing is the arguement that if we outlawed handguns people wouldn't kill people.