What do people think of the various types of surplus Garand Ammo?

[gfanikf]

Doing some surplus ammo shopping today to get in all the ammo I need before my wife and I move and so (since I have powder and primers) will keep me stocked till after the winter. This list isn't meant to be all inclusive, just what I've seen for sale on Ammogarand, Gunbroker, Sportsmanguide, etc.

Three criteria I'm looking for
1. Quality in terms of accuracy and shooting
2. Quality for reloading (obviously the Iranian is berdan primed so that doesn't apply...but it is dirt cheap).
3. Risk of blowing up my Garand (now I know all ammo can have a bad batch or run, but I'm looking for ones where numerous bad batches or runs have occurred).

Types.
1. Greek HXP (I suspect most is the same as the CMP type)
2. Korean Surplus
3. Iranian Surplus (from 68 I think)
4. Non-Corrosive Twin Cities 1951 and on production

I do see Lake City floating around, but it's not priced right.

My goal is to spend under $200 shipped.

If I am missing a type to keep an eye out for, please let me know.

 

[desidog]

Your goal is to spend $200 on how much? Quantity vs. quality...

I think at this point in time, the price point of surplus 30'06 combined with the age, corrosive nature of their primers, scarcity, and shipping prices - that it is far easier just to buy cheap modern factory ammo. For me, the cost savings per round are eclipsed by the additional time i spend cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo.

 

[mdemetz]

Avoid the Austrian OJP surplus stuff.

 

[Orlando]

Personally wouldnt use any of the Korean junk if you gave it to me.

You wont find a better deal today than Greek HXP from CMP
All you need is club membership to purchase ammo
$14 for the M1 Collectors Club for a years membership and you are set

 

[carbine85]

Greek ammo from the CMP. Problem solved

 

[P5 Guy]

Greek HXP from the CMP is fine, buy as much as you can.
Korean, KA is corrosive primer, clean accordingly, PS is okay.
Iranian/Persian no personal experience.
A60 from Taiwan China considered to be corrosive and the primer pocket is too large for reloading.
AMA Danish, some of the best I have ever had.
LC from the CMP soft shooting and reliable.
Twin Cities no personal experience.
Most of the commercial M2 Equivalent is a dollar a shot or more.

 

[Vaarok]

All too expensive nowadays. The Korean stuff was great for casual shooting, but my top preference was the Yugoslav stuff in the paper cartons, meant for 1919s.

 

[Jeff H]

HPX from the CMP. For your $200, you can get 400 rounds of good shooting noncorrosive ammo. The CMP charges you additional for shipping so your budget will have to go up to $230, but it is still the cheapest noncorrosive ammo out there.

Aim Surplus is starting to sell some Garand ammo too, but it is still more expensive than the CMP.

 

[Swampman]

Quote:
"it is far easier just to buy cheap modern factory ammo."

Keep in mind that unless you have an aftermarket adjustable gas plug like a Schuster or McCann, the vast majority of modern factory 30-06 ammo is not suitable for use in a Garand.
The factory ammunition that is suitable for use in a Garand isn't cheap, Midway's price for the Federal American Eagle 30-06 M1 Garand 150 Grain FMJ is $22.49 for 20 or $219.99 for 200, the Hornady 30-06 M1 Garand Match Ammunition is $31.99 for 20 rounds or $317.99 for 200, those prices don't include shipping.
The CMP Greek '06 is less than $110 for 200 rounds of non corrosive, Boxer primed ball ammo delivered to your door. It's pretty hard to beat that deal.

 

[cfullgraf]

Greek HXP.

Costs about the same as new empty factory brass and you get to "unload" it in the bargain.

HXP is good cases for reloading for the M1.

Personally, I would not bother with any corrosive regardless of the cost. But your rifle is not my rifle. Your choice.

 

[Tim the student]

HXP from the CMP.

If that fails for some reason, LC.

Both are good stuff, IME.

 

[PTMCCAIN]

HXP from CMP.

'nuff said.

+1

 

[henschman]

HXP is good stuff... it is more accurate than I am most of the time. It is reloadable, but it has crimped primers so it adds one extra step to the reloading process. Well worth it for the price. I pay just as much for surplus 7.62x51, and most of it is not reloadable at all.

 

[Slamfire]

Surplus ammunition is a risk, you don't know how it has been stored. I am of the opinion that all the surplus ammunition on the market is there because it exceeded its shelf life.

This UN manual is interesting

http://www.un.org/disarmament/conva...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf

It can be found with other manuals here:

http://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/Ammunition/IATG/

Ammunition stockpiles are inspected in first world countries. IATG07.20 Surveillance and In Service Proof describes some of this. The chemistry of deterioration is described, there is a table on how heat ruins the service life of ammunition, and there is a listing of the inspection techniques, which none of us have the equipment to do, which determine the content of stabilizer in the powder.

I am of the opinion the best thing to do for Garands is to roll your own. That way you have nice new powder, you inspected the cases, and the powder charge is appropriate for the mechanism.

Old ammunition is cheap for a reason.

 

[Swampman]

Do you think that there could be a possibility that the UN Council on Disarmament might have some motive other than the safety of American mil surp shooters?
I'm not saying that they DO, just that we might want to consider the possibility, however remote.

I'm also not saying that diphenalamine (sp?) doesn't break down over time, it does, and I'm sure that each round of ammo does have a finite shelf life.
I just have no idea exactly how long that life might be (and I doubt the UN does either), but I DO know that its considerably longer than the US Army's standard of 20 years for single base powder and 40 years for double based under proper storage conditions.

I admit that I use handloads for the majority of my shooting and almost all of my "long term storage ammo". I feel that my handloads are safe, and of higher quality than just about any mil surp ammo out there.

However, if you look around, you'll find FAR more cases of people blowing up guns and themselves with handloaded ammo than you ever will by the use of surplus. I'm sure that none of the people that chambered and fired those handloads thought that they were dangerous.

Most of the cases that you do find where surplus ammo caused problems, like the 90s Indian 7.62x51 ammo, aren't due to the ammo per se, but what idiots have done to it. My understanding is that when that particular ammo was delinked, a significant number of the projectiles were inadvertently pulled. Rather than take a loss, or selling the damaged rounds as components, whoever did the delinking just took the loose powder, poured some into the more empty looking cases, reseated the bullets and sent it on its way.
That ammo did cause serious problems, but it wasn't due to age or storage conditions.

I understand that you prefer your handloads to surplus, I'm the same way, but to dismiss all surplus as useless and dangerous isn't reasonable.

Can you cite any cases where Greek surplus sold through the CMP has caused serious problems? Any problems with Swiss surplus?

An old friend once told me that if he wouldn't drink the water from a particular country without boiling it, he darn sure wouldn't shoot their ammo either! That might not be a bad general rule, but lumping all surplus ammo together into the useless and dangerous box just doesn't make much sense.

 

[fatcat4620]

I know its a little out of your price range but you could look at this stuff, maybe split a can with a friend.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP3006CAN

 

[Swampman]

Reading through the thread I noticed that I posted incorrect information in post #14.

Instead of :

"the US Army's standard of 20 years for single base powder and 40 years for double based under proper storage conditions."

It should have read:

"the US Army's standard of 20 years for double base powder and 40 years for single based under proper storage conditions."

I apologize for my error.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Greek from CMP; I've had issues with old de-linked LC; I've had bullets pop out and so on. The Greeks obviously took care and it shows.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have used HXP from CMP for quite some time. It is a little dirty but shoots very well, consistently and is very well priced. Please note that M2 Ball isengineered to generate a specific pressure curve for operation of the gas system. Non-M2 Ball or equivalent, either handloaded or from Federal American or Hornady, can overstress the operating rod unless the adjustable gas plug from either McCann or Schuster (my preferred choice) is used. On this, YMWon'tV.

Cheers,

FH

 

[ZekeLuvs1911s]

My friend got the S Korean and Iranian stuff and they aren't too good looking. The Iranian stuff was very dirty and caused jams. The S Korean stuff was marginally better. Personally, I use the LC or Greek stuff and both are great. Stick with those IMHO.

 

[Swampman]

One & done...

http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/ammo.htm

Just make sure that you look the ammo over carefully before shooting them as the CMP advises on their website.

"WARNING - Surplus Ammunition

All ammunition is subject to deterioration over time. Customers should expect that 5% to 15% of the cartridges in any can may exhibit some stages of discoloration or corrosion or other abnormalities. As with any surplus ammunition, each and every round should be carefully checked before use.

Deformed or otherwise suspect rounds should not be fired.

These cartridges are aged surplus military ammunition. This ammunition is NOT newly-manufactured,and is sold STRICTLY IN “AS IS” CONDITION, with no warranty expressed or implied."

Despite what they say, I've only had a handful of culls over the years using HXP while shooting almost 2000 rounds in .30-06 and .303 British. My experiences with Korean '06 ammo have not been as positive, although their .30 Carbine ammo is excellent. I have no experience with the Iranian '06.

 

[aka108]

The Greek HXP is very decent ammo. Brass is excellent and it will handle many reloadings. I purchased one of the DMP Grarands coverted to 308 and was lucky to have purchased a large quantity of Australian NATO marked 308 for a song, nice stuff and makes good reloads.

 

[Swampman]

aka108
Is your Aussie 7.62x51 Boxer primed?
If you're reloading the Berdan brass, how do you deprime it?
The Aussie Berdan has just about the toughest primer crimp I've ever tried to deal with. The only method I've found that works is an awl with a cupped flat ground on one side. I use a hammer to drive it into the firing pin indentation and then lever them out. It's a slow process and I trash about 15 to 20 percent of the anvils getting the primers removed. Even though it's great brass, I just flat gave up after doing a couple hundred.

The top case in the photo is an Aussie Footscray Berdan case that I attempted to deprime using the hydraulic method. I've never seen a case expand quite like that. Usually if the primer doesn't come out, the case just splits like the Spanish Santa Barbara case on the bottom.

Now that's some good annealing!

 

[aka108]

SWAMPMAN All my Australian7.62x51 is boxer primed.