What do you guys make of this?

[STAGE 2]

From Ed Brown's website under the topic of "How do I get the maximum reliability out of my Ed Brown 1911? What are the fundamentals of 1911 handling?", it says this...


5. Never shoot your gun dry. Shooting your gun dry means firing the gun until it is completely empty and the slide locks back. This is a little known secret of top competitive shooters. When Ed Brown shot competitively and was ranked #16 in the world, not he, nor any of his competitors ever shot their guns dry. You should maintain control and always know how many rounds you have fired, and insert a fresh magazine before your gun is completely empty. For example, a 1911 is loaded with 7 rounds at the beginning of a match, when 6 are fired, the magazine should be exchanged for a full one. Dropping a locked back slide in a stressful match is a difficult and error prone activity.


I've never heard of this. Someone like Ed Brown clearly knows his ways around 1911's but I can't see how this would make a gun wear prematurely or affect reliability. Thoughts?

 

[MCgunner]

I've heard it preached, but never gave a whole lot of thought to it. In IDPA, they tell you when you are to make a reload and whether it's tactical or not. Not something you do in IDPA, but I've never shot IPSC or any other action games than pins and pepper popper shoot outs.

 

[Navy87Guy]

It's acknowledged that a reload from slide lock (the gun being "dry") takes longer than reloading before you are empty. I think this caution has more to do with the mechanics of a reload in a competition than it does with the impact it has on the gun. It's more "reliable" because there's one less step -- having to release the slide. I don't think anyone is saying that shooting until slide lock puts premature wear on the gun.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

That was a routine match technique in the days of the single stack IPSC gun. Nowadays the hot shots reload when it is advantageous and don't care if they leave a round or two on the ground in their 28 shot magazines.

Jeff Cooper advocated counting rounds like that, too.
If ol' Ed can keep track of his shots and reload on the last round like that IN A GUNFIGHT he is a better man than I, Gunga Din.

Just depends on what you are buying the gun for.

I don't see where he says anything about wear on the gun, but the most common failure to feed is the first round out of a magazine in an empty gun. So if you CAN count shots under stress, you are avoiding that risk.

 

[1911Tuner]

6 Rounds

Been doin' that for about 25 years now. Works well. Easy to count to three by 2s if you shoot pairs. Reload on a hot chamber...and I don't even engage the thumb safety. Shifting my hand removes my finger from the trigger guard.
Slapping in a fresh magazine and rolling the gun back into firing position places my left thumb perfectly on the slidestop release pad just in case I lost count, and maintains the autopilot effect. Fast, relatively fumble-free, and it trains you to unconsciously count rounds and reload without running dry. Could be a life-saver in a real fight.

See...Clearing a stoppage takes time. Time to even realize that one has occurred. Time to find the mag release. Time to grab and slam in a fresh mag. Time to find the slidestop pad...Time for the slide to go to battery...(Not to mention that reloading from slidelock is more likely to produce a misfeed than while the gun is operating normally.)...and very likely fumbling all the way because unless you're made of solid oak, you'll probably be pretty shaken up by this time.

A locked, empty pistol is a stoppage, no matter how you cut it...and a stoppage in a kill/be killed situation is the last thing that you want. You get to decide when to reload instead of the pistol deciding for you.

 

[rbert0005]

It would also depend on what you are shooting,ie pins and plates.

You sure get red in the face loosing to the other guy, when you still have one round with one target left, and you are changing mags while he is shooting his last target with his last round.

Bob

 

[Jenrick]

I personally just train for my shooting hand thumb to go the slide release whenever I mag change. It gets depressed whether it needs to be or not once the new mag is locked in. Figure it's not a bad habit to have.

-Jenrick

 

[STAGE 2]

So from what I gather this is more of just a competition speed technique thing than a wear on the gun kind of thing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Technique

Stage2 asked:

>So from what I gather this is more of just a competition speed technique thing than a wear on the gun kind of thing.<
*************************

Pretty much...and habits aquired on the range are habits that you'll default to if the situation ever switches to real. Reduced wear is a side benefit.

Jenrick:

>I personally just train for my shooting hand thumb to go the slide release whenever I mag change. It gets depressed whether it needs to be or not once the new mag is locked in. Figure it's not a bad habit to have.<
***************

Bingo. Try the off-hand thumb. You'll like it.

 

[wrangler5]

In most of the IDPA scenarios I've shot, pretty much everybody shoots to slide lock. The operating assumptions are that you will operate the way you train, that if you're ever in an actual gunfight you will NOT be able to count rounds reliably (as Jim Watson suggests above) especially with high capacity magazines, and that you MAY need every round you started with.

This means that you NEVER leave a round on the ground, so if you want to reload before slide lock you have to retain control of the old magazine (even if it's empty - you shouldn't be taking time to look at it) and put it in a jacket or pants (not shirt) pocket, or in a mag carrier. This process is slower than shooting to slide lock and dropping the obviously-empty mag at the same time your off hand is hauling out a full one. Since the game is based on time, most everybody shoots to slide lock. There are occasional scenarios where you DO have to do a reload-with-retention, but not very often.

You can debate whether the IDPA operating assumptions are the proper ones, although they seem fairly sensible to me as applied to the majority of shooters, however unlikely it is (statistically) that you will ever need to reload in an actual gunfight, even if you're using a 5-round snubbie.