What does it mean to say a gun has "soul"?

[Joshua M. Smith]

For me, soul = craftsmanship that borders on artwork.

A Glock or AR is dropped together. Very little skill is required.

A 1911 or old bolt action requires fitting of parts for optimum function.

Wood stocks require inletting and, often, hand finishing. Synthetic stocks, especially the cheap ones, are molded.

I'm of the belief that you don't truly own something unless you put something of yourself into it - your blood, sweat, or tears. This applies to my cars, guns, fishing reels, and, hell, even my ammo. I'm personally invested in each round I send downrange.

Josh

 

[.308 Norma]

I realize people name cars

Over the years, I've had a few cars that I called, "You _______ pile of junk!"
BTW, one of them was a classic '55 T-bird that was extremely "inactive" much of the time.

 

[mavracer]

For me, soul = craftsmanship that borders on artwork.

A Glock or AR is dropped together. Very little skill is required.

A 1911 or old bolt action requires fitting of parts for optimum function.

Wood stocks require inletting and, often, hand finishing. Synthetic stocks, especially the cheap ones, are molded.

I agree with this on the surface but not all ARs are dropped/thrown together, some have fitted bolts and barrels that are bedded or cold fit to the uppers.
IMHO that would at least impart as much soul into it as a machine inletted birch stock with pressed checkering slapped on some mass produced bolt.
Still not much either way though lol

 

[LoonWulf]

Imo "soul" isnt something any object has, its something we attribute to them.

I have a lucky hat..... Is it actually lucky? No, but it feels that way to me.

My Ridgeline 280 and Browning Abolt 375 Ruger are both "my" guns and feel like they have "soul"

But to someone else.... One is just an overpriced 700 with a fancy barrel shroud, and the other is a collection of ragtag parts in a chambering that's not even very practical.....

 

[Old Dog]

This applies to my cars, guns, fishing reels,

Why I like old cars and trucks I can actually work on, old bolt and lever rifles,, 1911s, and a Zebco 33 will do probably most of the same things my Shimano Stella can do, but with no class and... dare I say, soul.

 

[mcb]

For me, soul = craftsmanship that borders on artwork.

A Glock or AR is dropped together. Very little skill is required.

A 1911 or old bolt action requires fitting of parts for optimum function.

Wood stocks require inletting and, often, hand finishing. Synthetic stocks, especially the cheap ones, are molded.

I'm of the belief that you don't truly own something unless you put something of yourself into it - your blood, sweat, or tears. This applies to my cars, guns, fishing reels, and, hell, even my ammo. I'm personally invested in each round I send downrange.

Josh

As an engineer I have spent my career designing things that drop together with no hand fitting. Hand fitting is due to shortcomings in design and/or manufacturing, in most cases, and IMHO not a virtue.

 

[Howland937]

Perhaps soul and character are used interchangeably when they shouldn't be. Or panache, style, swag...whatever you wanna call it. But, some folks name their firearms and/or assign gender. Same with cars. It doesn't make it real or even believable, though every car or gun that ever gave me problems has been called all sorts of names.

 

[DustyGmt]

Unhealthy obsession guys? lol. When I say it it's just another way of saying certain guns have more character than others. Not literally saying they are reincarnations or supernatural phenomenon....

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Why I like old cars and trucks I can actually work on, old bolt and lever rifles,, 1911s, and a Zebco 33 will do probably most of the same things my Shimano Stella can do, but with no class and... dare I say, soul.

A good ol' Zebco 33 might not, but an old Ambassadeur certainly will -- especially one that's been supertuned.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

As an engineer I have spent my career designing things that drop together with no hand fitting. Hand fitting is due to shortcomings in design and/or manufacturing, in most cases, and IMHO not a virtue.

That's the difference between science and art. Hand-fitted, a pistol is unique, even though there may be millions of them. Dropped together, a pistol is merely a tool -- not that there's anything wrong with that, but the human element is missing.

The soul of a thing is in the human element. The soul is in the imperfection.

 

[lysanderxiii]

What does it mean to say a gun has soul?

Whatever you want it to mean . . .

 

[Beck]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. IMO an AR or AK are "Utilitarian" while something like an M1903 Springfield or wood stock Rem 700 have "Soul." The former are easy to replace and don't need soul. The later are harder to replace. they've got history and soul. I used to have an M1903 when I was in high school, which I stupidly sold as a teen. I wish I had that kind of soul back. All my long guns have wood stocks even today. There's something about warm wood and blued steel that bespeaks of soul.

Since 'tis the season, you could compare an artificial Christmas tree to a real one to differentiate between utility and soul. Merry Christmas!

 

[mcb]

That's the difference between science and art. Hand-fitted, a pistol is unique, even though there may be millions of them. Dropped together, a pistol is merely a tool -- not that there's anything wrong with that, but the human element is missing.

I've heard no mainstream music worth listening to since the late-'90s or so. This is because it started being manufactured around this time. Bands were replaced by synthetic beats, perfectly formed and timed.

Sterile.

Prior to this, people made the music. Even though it was processed, the raw tracks were created by people playing instruments. Therefore, the timing wasn't perfect. Not every chord was perfectly formed. These were features of the music.

The soul of a thing is in the human element. The soul is in the imperfection.

Guns are not art to me. I have zero interest in guns that have all the fancy engraving. I can appreciate the skill it take to make those fancy art/guns and yet have zero interest in owning one. Even plan guns that are hand fitted have no more desirability to me than mass produced ones. I have far more appreciation for a gun that is designed and manufacture so that I can take 10 of them apart mix their parts and put them back together and get 10 functional firearms. A gun that requires someone to hand fit the parts may be great but if someone is having a bad day you get a lemon (CNC machines have far far fewer bad days). You also then have to hand fit any repairs rather than simple drop in replacements.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Guns are not art to me. I have zero interest in guns that have all the fancy engraving. I can appreciate the skill it take to make those fancy art/guns and yet have zero interest in owning one. Even plan guns that are hand fitted have no more desirability to me than mass produced ones. I have far more appreciation for a gun that is designed and manufacture so that I can take 10 of them apart mix their parts and put them back together and get 10 functional firearms. A gun that requires someone to hand fit the parts may be great but if someone is having a bad day you get a lemon (CNC machines have far far fewer bad days). You also then have to hand fit any repairs rather than simple drop in replacements.

The art isn't in engraving or anything like that. It's in making the individual parts work together in perfect harmony in a way unique to that firearm.

And that's fine that you don't understand it. It's not for everyone.

Soul (character) takes artisans and craftsmen. Tools take CNC machinery.

 

[Outlaw75]

Soul = "My gun is better than your gun, regardless of how good a shot you are with it, especially if it's something I can't afford."

It generally comes in one of two contexts:

Context A:

"Ok, so I can't get on paper at 5 yds with this Dan Wesson and you're making quarter size groups at 25 yds with that Tisas, at least my gun has Soul!"

Context B:

"Well, yeah, that Dan Wesson is nice and it shoots fantastically, too bad it has no Soul like my Tisas!"

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Soul = "My gun is better than your gun, regardless of how good a shot you are with it, especially if it's something I can't afford."

It generally comes in one of two contexts:

Context A:


Context B:

Eh, no.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Gun with no Soul is Souless! that probably a good thing

 

[jmorris]

I figure anyone that says something like that, is using this definition.



That said, I guess it doesn't always have to be positive...this is a kia soul...for example.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

I figure anyone that says something like that, is using this definition.

View attachment 1186211

That said, I guess it doesn't always have to be positive...this is a kia soul...for example.

View attachment 1186212

That thing evokes all sorts of emotions...

 

[mcb]

The art isn't in engraving or anything like that. It's in making the individual parts work together in perfect harmony in a way unique to that firearm.

And that's fine that you don't understand it. It's not for everyone.

Soul (character) takes artisans and craftsmen. Tools take CNC machinery.

Conversely its fine you don't understand the skill it takes to make a gun (or any device) where the parts are 100% interchangable without compromising function.

As in my first post, and the more I think about it the more I believe if a gun has "soul" (not literally but figuratively) IMHO it's from what is has done not how it was made. That does not diminish the skill it takes to hand fit older designs or the artistry that goes into the fancy engraved ones.

If guns are tools then they should be used and through that use do they earn there character, soul, or whatever other word you want to use for this quality we want to see.

Two identical guns sitting on a table one in NIB condition, the other clearly worn and dinged from hard use. Which one would have interested tales to tell if they could? The method of their manufacture would not matter in this comparison since they started out identical.

 

[I6turbo]

First, this is a good thread IMO, a lot of interesting posts and perspectives, and several that do a good job of defining what a gun having soul means to them. Even those who seem to view all guns about the same as they might a mailbox or a push mower -- just a utilitarian object.

For me, "soul" in a gun is nearly impossible to clearly define -- kind of like Justice Stewart said about pornography, "I know it when I see it." I think @jmorris dictionary quote, "the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment" is getting at what I'm talking about when I say a gun, a car, or some such inanimate object has soul. But the exact definition of what it means to me still remains vague, even to my own self. There's some emotion to it, some sentiment, and some sub-conscious factors that I probably can't define. And probably don't even want to try, don't want to over-analyze to the point of sucking the enjoyment out of my appreciation for these few inanimate objects that have soul.

 

[SSN Vet]

What does it mean to say a gun has "soul"?​

Nothing. Guns are inanimate objects. You may like certain combinations of form and material in your gun, but that does not ascribe to it a "soul"

 

[buck460XVR]

In my whole life, I have not put the words firearms and "soul" in the same sentence. If ones does, this would mean that MilSurp firearms would come with a memory of those it has already killed. It would mean that guns really can be "evil", unlike what we have tried to convince anti's for years. While I sometimes feel I am being watched over by Grandpa or Dad when using their old firearms passed down to me, I believe it is their "soul" I am feeling, not that of the metal and wood in my hands.

 

[Old Dog]

Eh, no.

Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with him as well.

I just don't know anyone who's ever used the term "soul" to describe a firearm who's used it to disparage another's more expensive gun or as an excuse for what one's own gun cannot do.

It's just a freakin' word, guys, @jmorris located the applicable definition of soul: the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment, and those who use the term this way get it; those who object, well, carry on.

We need to put the membership here on some new assignments, important stuff, such as figuring out how stop climate change, where butterflies go when it rains or where the elephant goes to die.

In the meantime, to avoid disagreement, let's restrict ourselves to only a handful of meaningful (qualitative not subjective) terms to describe firearms:
(1) It's shiny
(2) It's big
(3) It's little
(4) It's ugly
(5) It's got the shoulder-thingy that comes up.

 

[v8stang289]

I don't equate blued steel and wood to "soul", just like I don't equate plastic and aluminum, AR's, etc as not having soul.

It's hard for me to put it to words, but I'd say soul in a sense is History or Provinance. Sort of a "what has this gun seen?" Type of thing

I have an old Win Model 12 that has bluing and walnut with honest wear. Thin or missing finish near the edges, but not a hint of rust or pitting. Not neglected, but obviously well used while still being cared for. To me it has soul.

Like my dads old 336 that he's taken hundreds of deer with. It has no bluing and the finish on the wood is worn pretty much off.

Also my old Marlin 39m that my dads step dad gave him, and he gave to me. It's beat up a bit, the finish is gone, but 4 generations have shot it, and it's a great little rifle.

I'd say the AR that rides in a farmers truck year after year and protects his ranch/farm from predators and the like, has more soul than a LNIB blued steel and walnut gun that's been a safe queen it's whole life.

Guns are tools, and to me the "soul" comes from the use and history that they have.

It would be kinda like having your great great, etc... Granddad's framing hammer that he built his house with. Obviously the Hammer is not a living and breathing entity, but you hold it and think about the man that held it before you, and what its seen and done.

That's how I view it anyway.