What gun for this

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JImbothefiveth

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So, if you were a pirnciple in a school and the state allowed you to keep a firearm, which one would you keep to stop an active shooter. Let's say you get one handgun and one rifle or shotgun. Remember that good enough isn't good enough, because if you fail the whole school fails. I figure that large capacity isn't needed, because you would only face one or 2 people. I'm really not sure what kind of rounds you'd use. You might want to be able to shoot through glass, yet you don't want to endanger the student. I think the optimal would be a semi-automatic shotgun with 00 or an AK, either one would probably have a reddot sight. The handgun would probably be a G22 or g21 if I could shoot them well, though perhaps carying a sidearm would be bad, just in case you lose to the shooters.
 
if you lose to the shooters, how is it bad that you have a gun? they already have one or more, and while it is true they could use it, i think the chance to end the rampage shows much greater merit than failing and lengthening the rampage by 12 rounds or however much you have with you after shooting it out.

i would pick my saiga .223 w/ red-dot and a sigma 9mm
 
a 9mm? you trying to tickle them to death?

Carry a .45 for the handgun and a pump shotty with a pistol grip. The shotgun is more for the students visual benefit. If I saw my highschool principle walking down the hall with one I'd be pretty impressed. Plus I might do better in my classes after the whole thing was over :D
 
"...with a pistol grip..." Not with just a pistol grip. A shotgun with no stock is the most useless thing on Earth.
"...a 9mm? you trying to tickle them to death?..." You need to learn something about firearms use and ballistics.
Personally, I've never met a school principal I'd trust with any firearm and very few teachers. Even the teachers I knew in the Reserves. Know one guy who is extremely good with a long bow though. And one other who is reasonably good with a handgun. He's a bit nuts though. Cleans a fish/duck then eats with the same knife without cleaning it.
If it was me, it'd be my M1 Carbine. Speer 110 grain HP's make big holes in soft targets. Never tried 'em through wired glass though.
 
kind of a strange question to be asking....are you planning on going on a killing spree or something? And what school district would allow a faculty member, teacher or principle, to have a AK or a shotgun in his/her office? :rolleyes: seems like fantasy land to me....
 
Honestly saiga .223 would be your best bet I think. If you decide to go shotgun DO NOT GET A PISTOL GRIP unless youplan on shooting students too.
 
AR-15 with an EO tech (distances aren't going to be far in a school) and a good ole 1911.
But don't forget the ballistic plates duct taped to your back in case one of the whipper snappers gives you multiple .308 rounds :D
 
but would it be plausible to use armored golf-carts too? hmm... two trauma plates duck-taped to my back, and a three-man tactical team made of a principal, a nerdy librarian, and a janitor. all with missile launchers and sub-machine guns...

im stickin' by my choices, even if people claim 9mm is inadequate. recent bullet designs have shortened the gap between 45 and 9, fyi...
 
the pistol grip was a joke cause that is the type of weapons kids see in movies these days. I was also just bashing on 9mm cause I personally prefer .45.

next time I won't forget one of these :D in my post. oh wait I did have one, guess it was just in the wrong spot.

as for learning about ballistics I figured watching others fight with and shooting people myself with a 9mm while in Iraq and seeing what happened qualified me to rag on 9mm instead of using a .45, sorry I'll keep my mouth shut and let those with technical numbers and books be the experts.
 
but would it be plausible to use armored golf-carts too? hmm... two trauma plates duck-taped to my back, and a three-man tactical team made of a principal, a nerdy librarian, and a janitor. all with missile launchers and sub-machine guns...
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If you beefed up the suspension on that golf cart enough I think a quad-50 mounted on one of them wouldn't be unreasonable...
 
If a shooter gets into a school and hits one student, you have failed already.

DONT get a pistol grip. Get a proper stock for the slug gun. And carry a .45 on your belt.

In fact, if you intend to arm, lead by example and get your teachers armed as well. A armed school is one that a cowardly mass murderer wont want to target.

And the students will get the message loud and clear. So that when THEY become of age, they will also want to learn Gun ownership and take on responsibility that goes with it.
 
oo! nice additions double. we'd need to get bullet proof glass on all sides though, we could superglue them on the sides after we get in, and then just kick them off when we're ready to roll.

i wish it was legal to have at least a few armed people in schools, with the sole purpose of protection in mind. the University of Steubenville has armed guards, when i visit friends there i feel at least a little better about not being armed myself...
 
have you ever shot a shot gun with a pistol girp? it's more of an up close weapon cause you can't really aim and make precise shots, and most school shooting i've heard of happens in the middle of a crowd or classroom. so you might want to make that shot a good one. maybe one with a folding stock wouldn't be a bad idea. other than that i would make it a .45acp or .44mag. something with stopping power and concealable.
 
There was one vice principle (Spelling?) in my high school at one time. He just happened to be a Officer in the Military and we had no doubt whatsoever that his soft words and punishment could be administered.

I once saw him issuing payroll at a table to his unit with a .45 sitting on it's side next to the pile of envelopes at the head of the payline.

I never did forget this particular person, I got into trouble once and a bit of detention with that man was more than enough for one day.
 
kind of a strange question to be asking....are you planning on going on a killing spree or something?
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If I was it wouldn't matter what gun I was using, and I wouldn't have it focused around searching a large building for just one person.

And what school district would allow a faculty member, teacher or principle, to have a AK or a shotgun in his/her office? seems like fantasy land to me....
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Of course, this is a hypothetical question, however, locally, I believe that teachers are allowed to carry guns and some do , and I would like to convince them to arm themselves. And, if Ford fails, principle could be a good job. They need good math teaching because of no child left behind, and it's very close to my house.
 
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Simple. Pump shotty loaded with slugs or a carbine loaded with HP's
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Those slugs will way overpenetrate. The second idea is much better.

.223 is pretty much a perfect rifle caliber for this. AR-15 with an Aimpoint.

as for learning about ballistics I figured watching others fight with and shooting people myself with a 9mm while in Iraq and seeing what happened qualified me to rag on 9mm instead of using a .45, sorry I'll keep my mouth shut and let those with technical numbers and books be the experts.
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You military or PMC? Keep in mind that we in the US are not restricted to FMJ. When it comes down to it, common handgun calibers are pretty much equal in the wounding department when loaded with JHP.

The "Mo power is always better" axiom does not apply to an Active Shooter situation in a crowded area. You don't want the biggest most powerful handgun or rifle caliber. You don't want 7.62x39. You don't want 12 gauge slugs or 00 Buck. You don't want a very powerful handgun.
 
the law as i know it, at least here, forbids firearms in schools. well, tell you the truth i had my hunting class in my middle school and there were plenty of guns lying around. but that was the only time i ever saw guns in a school besides police officers. kids do dumb things and sometimes dangerous things. i remember numerous times kids were caught with weapons at school like knives, clubs, even a bb gun once. luckly no real guns.
 
I kind of agree with Sunray. Did your district hire an administrator or a SWAT team leader to run this school? Because they require two different skillsets.

But I'm past that now, and imagining that the school board (in a moment of insanity) hired me as a principal, maybe of an elementary school, a job that I am suited for like Charlton Heston would have made a good ballerina. NOT. My school experience was a long time ago, and my educational theories are hopelessly outdated, but when a THR member calls, I spring into hypothetical action none the less.

Okay, so here I am in my office, and in between scolding misbehaving students, worrying about the rising cost of textbooks, and refereeing teacher spats, I hear on the intercom, "Shots fired in room 112!" I need to be trained and drilled for this situation, but assuming I am, what do I grab out of the gun rack as I rush out into the hall? Is that the question? And can I assume that whoever I'm answering to wants me to limit the damage without being too concerned about political correctness? Thanks.

I'm entering into a situation where what I want to shoot is surrounded by a lot of what I really really don't want to shoot. IMHO, I want a firearm/ammo combination that will, if I do my part:

1) deliver a substantial whack to a target (i.e. probable one-shot stop if placed COM out to 25 yards or so)

2) not ricochet or overpenetrate excessively

3) be capable of 2 MOA accuracy or better @ 25 yards

4) be distinctive in appearance so that students and staff can easily tell, "Okay, that's Mr. Parker coming to help us" instead of "OMG, another terrorist in a black ski mask (or BATF agent in a black ski mask)!"

5) probably ought to be a semi-auto, especially if the district is paying for the ammo

The accuracy requirement seems to be quite important, and argues against a shotgun, although I see some other members prefer it. If I am presented with a shooter holding a hostage in front of him, or a shooter that is between me and a group of innocents, I'm not going to fire a 12 gauge into the crowd. A shotgun would require the shooter to present himself as an isolated target, and I can't depend on that.

Tactically, I want to limit the shooter's access to any more victims than he has right now. I want the means to limit his mobility even if I don't have a clean shot on him yet. If I need to shoot out a light or chip out some concrete off a hallway corner, I want to do it with authority.

I can't speak for other principals, but I don't plan to shoot through glass. Shards of glass spraying all over the place and the impairment of my accuracy just aren't worth the risk to my students and staff. Glass is for looking through unless I'm under direct fire.

Also, I don't want to be doing this all alone. I want some of my staff to be armed and trained as well, and I want to be in radio contact with them. I want to find out if the shooter is a student or a stranger from off-campus, where they're located, and if there's more than one. I want communication more than I want the ideal personal weapon, in fact.

And last but certainly not least, I want my students to have a clear idea what to do if they hear gunshots, just like we have fire and earthquake drills. I want them to know to get down out of the line of fire, and move away from the shooting and toward a safer area when they can. And I want to teach gun safety classes at least twice a year.

So, what's the gun? It's one I'm not personally familiar with, but would like to be. I think I'd like a semi-auto 1927 model Thompson or variant, with a horizontal forearm, the adjustable rear sight and finned barrel from the Deluxe model, and a couple 20-round sticks. I'd like the feed ramp polished and a rear bolt buffer installed, and if the district could also issue me 500 rounds a month practice ammo, please? Hey, that'd be great.



Umm, maybe you'd better throw in a few more magazines, if it's not too much trouble. And a violin case. Thanks again.

Parker
 
it dont really mater

just get a rem 870 18" barrel and an extension ( or any other good shotty) and a 400 dollar or above pistol in anything bigger than a nine and smaller than a .45, so thats alot of choosing to do; but most important is get lots of ammo, some nice hollowpoints and beat the hell out of the guns until you are comfortable and good with them
 
You are asking for a building that needs to be able to seal doors at a touch of a button, the same way a mental retardation clinic can do at a moment's notice.

You really dont want to fire at that old concrete blocking or any of the lockers plus there are extinguishes in the wall recesses along with steam, water, waste and gas/ammonia lines supporting the building above the drop ceiling with strong concrete slab below your feet.

All of your staff needs to be armed. And all need to run a shooter drill school wide. All of the students need to know which way to go in any class period at any time gunshots ring out or a specific alarm pulled. These students need drilling to point of ho-hum automatic response no matter what else might be going on when it goes down for real.

The shooter engaging your school knows that armed response is on the way and if I recall, most schools have long firing range like corridors with many doors on both sides, any kind of shooting you do prior to finding actual shooter will only set YOU up to be ambushed.

Also you are going to have a school that is dispensing alot of human energy very quickly across ALL emotional ranges. Some of your students are going to freeze. Others run and some are going to approach the shooter's location out of curiosity.

Other teachers are going to be going rather ape and it's not going to be pretty.

At the same time LEO's and other response are going to be arriving and we will all be reading about another school shootup tomorrow in the paper or discussing it online here.

Still interested in getting a gun for school defense?

I am playing devil's advocate. Dont take offense at my remarks.

My idea of school security is Platoon on the north end, another platoon on the South end and a third platoon in reserve near the center of the building with a rapid reaction team near your office and no one moves or approaches within 200 yards of that school building without BEING scanned for guns.

Im surprised shooters have not unloaded agaisnt buses packing students into a solid mass against the building itself yet. And it's probably fortunate that the buses themselves provide a shield.
 
Most of the teachers I recall, would have been rooting for the shooter, and a few would have asked to help.:uhoh: Ha, ha, just kidding Mrs. Valone, just kidding...really... Mrs. Valone, kidding.:eek:

Gimme a Segway with a pintle mount Ma Deuce. And the uniformed janitors as backup.

segway-police-state-death-squads-commie-china.jpg
 
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