DeepSouth
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Wilson Combat Tactical Supergrade
Or something else that is very accurate and is a .45
Or something else that is very accurate and is a .45
What gun for this
- Thread starter JImbothefiveth
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http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=10
When it comes to shotguns, there are pistol grips, and then there are pistol grips.
When it comes to shotguns, there are pistol grips, and then there are pistol grips.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
An accurate 16" barreled AR-15 and an Aimpoint or comparable optic, using JHP, not FMJ.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
skoro said:
You win the "understatement of the year" award
420Stainless
Member
A handgun you can conceal but still get good accuracy at reasonable distance. For me that is a commander style 1911.
If you had time to get to your vehicle, which I assume is the only possible place you could store a long arm, I think an AR would be the weapon of choice. Again, something you can hit with at a distance.
If you had time to get to your vehicle, which I assume is the only possible place you could store a long arm, I think an AR would be the weapon of choice. Again, something you can hit with at a distance.
tex929rr
Member
Restorer
Member
I'm with the school of thought that says you don't want to see a weapon in the hands of an untrained faculty member...they would be a danger. They probably have students who would be better prepared and mentally equipped to deal with it. Now, if the school board was willing to pay for tactical training for selected faculty then I'm for it, but how likely is that? The board would rather pay 100k to have the tennis courts re-surfaced...again.
Here's an idea....the next time the school wants a major expansion of athletic facilities or programs, figure out how many well trained and equipped REAL security people this money could employ. If your average university decided to get serious about security they could forgo that 10 million dollar stadium cosmetic facelift and hire an honest-to-goodness qualified security team and pay them what they deserve.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
....but if I had to select a weapon it would be an 18" pump shotgun.
Here's an idea....the next time the school wants a major expansion of athletic facilities or programs, figure out how many well trained and equipped REAL security people this money could employ. If your average university decided to get serious about security they could forgo that 10 million dollar stadium cosmetic facelift and hire an honest-to-goodness qualified security team and pay them what they deserve.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
....but if I had to select a weapon it would be an 18" pump shotgun.
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rbernie
Contributing Member
I'm going to try to take the OP seriously - why not do the same?
Jimbo - PM Geno and ask his opinion; he's had some experience with this. We've also had lots of previous discussions about arming teachers and how to manage that; search might turn up some interesting threads.
Any kind of a long gun is silly, because you have too many storage and access issues with it. You want a weapon that's ON YOU, not NEAR YOU. I would also worry about any kind of scattergun causing too much collateral damage.
I'd carry the handgun with which I'm most proficient. In my case, that'd likely be a 1911-pattern pistol.
Jimbo - PM Geno and ask his opinion; he's had some experience with this. We've also had lots of previous discussions about arming teachers and how to manage that; search might turn up some interesting threads.
Any kind of a long gun is silly, because you have too many storage and access issues with it. You want a weapon that's ON YOU, not NEAR YOU. I would also worry about any kind of scattergun causing too much collateral damage.
I'd carry the handgun with which I'm most proficient. In my case, that'd likely be a 1911-pattern pistol.
Restorer
Member
...but whatever weapon they got I'd make them go here....
http://www.shootrite.org/courses/courses.html
....to take Tiger McKee's courses.
http://www.shootrite.org/courses/courses.html
....to take Tiger McKee's courses.
chuckusaret
member
I would not allow any of the teachers that I know to even own a gun let alone have one on campus. They are smart but no horse sense and are mostly wimps.
catspa
Member
skoro: This thread is just a teensy bit nutso, fellas.
Well... ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
Yeti: Mrs. Valone: "Okay, class, line up single file behind Yeti in order of how much I dislike you." And your nearest janitor is missing her eye protection.
HS, you make some good points, except I'm going to ask the budget committee for an extra cafeteria stipend to feed all your platoons. Now I really can't afford textbooks.
Parker
Well... ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
Yeti: Mrs. Valone: "Okay, class, line up single file behind Yeti in order of how much I dislike you." And your nearest janitor is missing her eye protection.
HS, you make some good points, except I'm going to ask the budget committee for an extra cafeteria stipend to feed all your platoons. Now I really can't afford textbooks.
Parker
JImbothefiveth
Member
Not here. The gun free zone doesn't apply to people with CCW permits, and some of the local teachers do carry.
I couldn't imagine the district paying for it. It's just that teachers are allowed to have them.
Actually, this should probably be 2 seperate questions.
1:which gun if I actually get the job
2:What would you buy for the principle if I don't, yet can still convince him to be armed and he's shown he's competent with gun safety.
If I get the job it wouldn't be as a teacher. I could store it in my office in a locker.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Then why the sidetrack to shotguns and AKs?
It's clearly gotta be something concealable and kept on the person, not stored somewhere.
Hopefully we'll have a similar law in Texas soon. We've got one in the works now for universities. Other schools will be next time if this one passes.
JImbothefiveth
Member
Because a principle could store it in his office in a safe.
I would just hire a security guard that's their job. Not the principle's job. If you must then go with a 40 s&w or 9mm carbine that way you don't overpenetrate and you can still shoot through glass. Then you don't need two firearms. This would be much more safe then a scatter gun that might hit someone else.
chuckusaret
member
The Palm Beach County school system does have their own police department on each school site. Problem is the pay is low and they get the officers that can't make it on a regular force. I would not trust them to protect me in a school fracas let alone a shoot out on campus.
Restorer
Member
After further thought I change my opinion from shotgun to handgun. Not because of patterning...almost any confrontation would by definition be in close quarters...but because a principal is not always in his office. He would have to go to his office, unlock and retrieve his weapon, then go deal with the threat. By that time it might be too late. He needs to have his weapon on his person at all times.
The downside for the principal is that if only he is armed, a determined loon will go after him first. Other staff members should be armed as well.
The downside for the principal is that if only he is armed, a determined loon will go after him first. Other staff members should be armed as well.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
And that's the problem. The situation goes from "armed citizen who happens to be a teacher" to "rapid response team".
Who stores the gun?
Who has access?
What communication is involved in deploying the weapon?
Are there multiple weapons?
What are all the entry/exit routes to get to the weapon?
This gets very Gecko45 in a hurry and turns into pseudo law enforcement.
An armed teacher, or better yet several, with the firearms on their person at all times, is the only way to approach this.
Anything that involves moving in an active shooter environment to try to get to a stored weapon is a recipe for disaster.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
I've never understood this position. If he were to only have the locked shotgun or rifle in his office and he is in there then he has immediate access and it would be good for him to have it. If he is on the other side for the school and has it in his office then he may not make it to it for a number of reasons 1)escape and evacuation of students in the area he is in 2)blocked off from the office by the shooters 3)he is dead...4).....5).....
the other scenarios are he is in his office and he doesn't have a shotgun or rifle locked in there with him, so he is just unarmed or he is on the other side of the school and he is unarmed this time with a zero chance of becoming armed to fight off the attackers.
Isn't the chance that he would be in his office of the chance that he could get to his office better than zero chance at all? Why do these plans have to be 100% effective or nothing at all?
Hungry Seagull
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Oh yes, I had a dream last night in my sleep.
Gunfire inside a schoolhouse holding 1200 children. Gunman is being engaged, brought down and taken out by the Staff, Brave Principal etc etc etc... Kids running all round.
Ya know? There is one really nutty thing I forgot.
The D-Day INVASION of ... 3000 PARENTS, RELATED PERSONS, Gaurdians etc flooding the schoolhouse in thier cars, minivans, trucks, tanks, airplaines, helicopters....
Plus the crush of media and helicopters and so on, so forth and etc ad nauseum while the rest of the USA loses celluar capacity, landline freezes and utiltity failures as all the Nation gets interrupted because a coward gunman starts plinking at children inside a school class room.
Every one will be talking about this for months and years.
Notice we been there done that 10 years ago? In a place called Columbine?
Nothing has changed much, except that tennis court may have been repaved and painted a few times.
Gunfire inside a schoolhouse holding 1200 children. Gunman is being engaged, brought down and taken out by the Staff, Brave Principal etc etc etc... Kids running all round.
Ya know? There is one really nutty thing I forgot.
The D-Day INVASION of ... 3000 PARENTS, RELATED PERSONS, Gaurdians etc flooding the schoolhouse in thier cars, minivans, trucks, tanks, airplaines, helicopters....
Plus the crush of media and helicopters and so on, so forth and etc ad nauseum while the rest of the USA loses celluar capacity, landline freezes and utiltity failures as all the Nation gets interrupted because a coward gunman starts plinking at children inside a school class room.
Every one will be talking about this for months and years.
Notice we been there done that 10 years ago? In a place called Columbine?
Nothing has changed much, except that tennis court may have been repaved and painted a few times.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Or a handgun could simply be on his person at all times and not have to worry about whether or not anyone could get to the long gun.
How about a 100% chance of having the gun? That's what you get if it's on you.
I am a middle school teacher and a CCW holder.
I am going to say that I would NOT want principles or teachers armed with firearms. Mace, maybe a taser, but absolutely NOT a firearm. We receive no training and are never required to qualify in any way.
Self defense is one thing, but in close quarters with hundreds of children..... no thank you. I live in Florida, and NO CIVILIANS, regardless of permits, are permitted to bring any type of firearm onto school property for any reason.
Secured classrooms and proper prevention is far more effective than arming a bunch of teachers. This would cause far more problems than it would solve. For every "teachers shoots armed gunman" story you could come up with there would be 10 other "teacher screws up with firearm" and "teacher loses firearm in school" stories.
Again, I am a teacher and also have my permit, but I would not want firearms on school. Now I would like some legislation to allow me to keep it secured in my car for the drive to and from work, but that is another topic altogether.
I am going to say that I would NOT want principles or teachers armed with firearms. Mace, maybe a taser, but absolutely NOT a firearm. We receive no training and are never required to qualify in any way.
Self defense is one thing, but in close quarters with hundreds of children..... no thank you. I live in Florida, and NO CIVILIANS, regardless of permits, are permitted to bring any type of firearm onto school property for any reason.
Secured classrooms and proper prevention is far more effective than arming a bunch of teachers. This would cause far more problems than it would solve. For every "teachers shoots armed gunman" story you could come up with there would be 10 other "teacher screws up with firearm" and "teacher loses firearm in school" stories.
Again, I am a teacher and also have my permit, but I would not want firearms on school. Now I would like some legislation to allow me to keep it secured in my car for the drive to and from work, but that is another topic altogether.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
I like handgun on person and shotgun or rifle locked in the office as well
still not a 100% effective plan but the odds are once again upped.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
I'm with Texas Rifleman on this if you are serious. It's fun to fantasize about the ultimate anti-school-shooting-tactical-firepower kit but chances are the only gun that is going to matter is the one that's at your fingertips and under your control at all times. Not all states prohibit teachers or students from carrying. It's not a federal law (even if some schools want to think they can supercede state law).
The arguments you have against teacher concealed carry are the same arguments the anti-gun groups have against concealed carry in general and we haven't seen any of them happen. Are teachers groped by students frequently or something? I don't get the whole "a kid will get a hold of it" argument, nor the "screw up" or "loses weapon" stories. Given the numbers it seems armed citizens might even be *gasp* more responsible with their weapons than law enforcement, considering they are criminally and civilly responsible for their every action.
Not everyone obeys those laws as we've seen time and time again, more frequently as of late. We've also seen the results of the entire populace of those places being defenseless. They kill a bunch of kids, then usually themselves, before the police even make a move. I'd rather have some teachers or administrators carrying and able to at least defend themselves, if not save the lives of students, just as any CCW person would do anywhere else. Would you rather have the fate of everybody be in the hands of the person that came there to kill everyone rather than give the victims a fighting chance? So far the whole "gun free zone" thing hasn't worked out too well.
The arguments you have against teacher concealed carry are the same arguments the anti-gun groups have against concealed carry in general and we haven't seen any of them happen. Are teachers groped by students frequently or something? I don't get the whole "a kid will get a hold of it" argument, nor the "screw up" or "loses weapon" stories. Given the numbers it seems armed citizens might even be *gasp* more responsible with their weapons than law enforcement, considering they are criminally and civilly responsible for their every action.
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