What HQ Scope for custom Volquartsen .22 LR rimfire rifle? (Optics Expert Req!)

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JakFrost

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I am ordering the custom rimfire rifle below to be built on the synthetic stock as per my specs using high quality parts. Now I am at the point where I have to choose a scope for this rifle and I am asking for suggestions and advice.

The rifle is a custom built accurized semi-auto model with 0.0001-inch tolerances for USD ~$1,500 so I am interested in mid/high-quality variable magnification scopes ($300-800 USD) from Zeiss Conquest, Nikon, Sightron, etc. to go along with this ~$1,500+ rifle.

However, this rifle will be used offhand and bench-rested first at an in-door 17-yard (50-foot) pistol range for learning and practice then as the season changes it will be taken outside for some longer distance target shooting up to 100-yards or practical limits on the .22 LR caliber. The close range requirement is where the difficulty in making the choices comes in.

I read and understood the informative Rifle Scope article on Wikipedia and done some preliminary research on forum posts for general opinions and suggestions for rifle scopes. I understand that using high magnifications at close ranges, such as the in-door pistol range, will create parallax problems.

Standard hunting scopes all have a set parallax setting at a 100-yards that is non-adjustable. Scopes with Adjustable Objectives (i.e. AO or A/O) or preferably Side Focus knobs are offer parallax settings starting at 50-yards minimum up to infinity maximum. There are non-adjustable scope models designed for Rimfire/Shotgun with a set parallax setting of 50-yards. Finally, there are Airgun/Rimfire scopes with adjustable parallax settings from 7-yards and up however only very few are available on the market and usually from lower end manufacturers.

However, since in the beginning the primary use of this rifle during winter will be at an in-door pistol range even the closer parallax settings are not close enough for 17-yard (50-feet) maximum distances and most of the high quality adjustable objective type scopes start with a minimum parallax of 50-yards and go up from there. For less than 50-yard parallax settings the only alternative are lower quality Rimfire/Airgun only scopes and I have reservations with making a choice like that. I do not know if it would be acceptable to use a 50-yard parallax adjusted scope at a 17-yard distance with a 3-4X magnification without suffering from serious parallax problems or the extent of the parallax error at these close distances so I am not sure how much weight I need to place choosing such a scope with a parallax adjustment under 50-yards.

I am not certain about the magnification or objective sizes that would be most usable for the short and long range target shooting so these parameters are up in the air but I presume that initial magnifications of ~3-4X for short range 17-yard (50-foot) distances is about the maximum usable and the higher magnification will be useful for outside shooting. The objective size could vary but I presume that a scope somewhere between 30-40 mm would be fine since I don't foresee the need for 50 mm or larger sizes and sizes smaller than 30 mm might be problematic at the in-door range that doesn't offer the best lighting.

Originally, I read many rifle scope reviews and many people favored the Zeiss Conquest rifle scopes over Leoupold or other manufacturers when choosing a mid-quality scope. If I didn't take into consideration any of the parallax issues at the in-door distances then I would most likely choose one of the two shotgun model scopes and most likely favoring the 3-9x40 model for the bigger objective and due to its popularity.

Optionally, the cheaper scopes designed for Rimfire rifles with parallax adjustments starting at 7-10-yards would be perfect for in-door usage but I am not quite confident about the reputation and reliability of these scopes. One person mentioned that the semi-auto action that this rifle is built on while having a very low recoil still offers quite a pounding to the scope that will be mounted to the receiver block just above because of the reciprocal semi-auto bolt action. While I do like the features of the Burris and possibly the BSA rimfire scopes I have some reservation about these scopes being able to function reliably with this type of action pounding away right below.

I am trying to make a difficult decision that hopes to satisfy the close range 17-yard in-door distances at the pistol range while still being good at outdoor distances of up to ~100-yards or so. This is a tough choice to make and I have a feeling that there might be no single best scope for these requirements and that I will have to make a decision between a lower quality in-door specific scope or a higher quality outdoor scope.

I'm hoping that someone will know more about scopes and have more experience than me to help me make a decision. So please post your opinions and experiences to help me. Also if you have any other recommendations for my rimfire rifle I would appreciate them.

Scopes

Non-Parallax Adjustable (50-yard set)


Parallax Adjustable (7-10-yard minimum)


Parallax Adjustable (50-yard minimum)


[size=-2]The Zeiss scope above is installed on the Volquartsen Signature Series Semi-Auto Rimfire but I am unsure if the initial 4.5x magnification might be too much for short range shooting at an in-door range.[/size]

Airgun/Rimfire Scopes


Rifle Specs

Volquartsen Custom - Deluxe Model Semi-Auto Rimfire - .22 LR



Bell and Carlson - Odyssey Synthetic Stock - 3-way Adjustable, Black

BCI20322L.jpg

Harris Bipod - HBLM - 9" to 13" with notches


[size=-2]* I'm not affiliated with any retailer or any of the scope manufacturers, the links, images, and prices used in this post are for example use only as an aid.[/size]
 
You worry too much about parallax. You do undestand the essence of it? So, as long as you have proper cheekweld, ie your eye is on the main optical axis, it's not that much a problem.

But out of my curiosity, why use a high-quality and probably very accurate rifle at very close ranges? I have ordinary Walther G22 with 4x32 fixed-parallax scope and I'm not ashamed to shoot out to 200m.
 
I have two models that I use for rimfire target shooting, but they might be too large for your purposes.

www.banditsleupoldriflescopes.com/site/1290159/product/LP55152

This is a 6.5-20x40mm with AO and target knobs. The one I have has a target dot. It will focus as close as 10 meters.


I also have two Weaver T-36 scopes, one with fine crosshairs and one with target dot. Both are AO and focus down to 10 meters. (Sightron makes a similar 36x benchrest scope. Leupold makes higher power scopes also.)
Here's the T-36.

weaverT36x40.jpg


I have to pack the car and get on the road, but for all around use Leupold makes, or used to make, mid-magnification variable scopes with side-focus AO.

I would definitely buy a scope with AO for rimfire target work. And look for something with a locking ring on the AO if possible.

High magnification is good when you are shooting quarter-inch groups at 50 yards.

Here we go, Leupolds with AO. Go here www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SRCH&Store_Code=BSS and enter "leupold ao" in the search box. There are numerous ao scopes from 4x-12 on up.

John
 
i built my daughter a volquartsen rifle very similar to that (different stock and their carbon fiber barrel, but same SS action, 2k trigger, etc) and it's quite nice. i'm sure you'll be pleased with it.

however, we only shoot at roughly 50 yrds (give or take 10 yrds) and even though my long range scopes are >$1000, i saw no reason to put anything other than a cheap rimfire scope with fixed parallax at 50 yrds. I think I spent $40.
 
Please consider the Bushnell Elite 3200's or 4200's. I have two of them and think very highly of them. I'm personally a proponent of AO type scopes, especially for rimfires.
Here's my 5-15x40 mounted on a Ruger 77/22.

Range010.gif
 
It would be hard to buy "too much" scope for that rifle, either in terms of quality or magnification.:)

Parallax may not be too big of a deal, but I'd lean towards a 20x or even higher powered scope, with an objective that's plenty big.

A Swarovski or other scope in its price range would not be overkill on this rifle, since you'll be bored with normal .22 shooting pretty quickly, and will want to start shooting dime-sized targets at 50 yards and then farther away. A top-notch scope with no perceptible distortion and a lot of magnification makes that possible, and fun. Furthermore, you won't need a spotting scope. The serious .22 benchrest guys don't use spotting scopes; their 36x riflescopes with top-quality optics work better anyway.:)

Enjoy that thing!
 
Medusa said:
But out of my curiosity, why use a high-quality and probably very accurate rifle at very close ranges?
Click to expand...

The reason is because I will be shooting the rifle the most at my pistol range that is 15-minutes drive from me. The next rifle range is 1-hour drive and it only offers 25-yard points, and the next is a 2-hour drive with 100-yard points and more outside.

I want to buy a small rifle for beginning to learn and to use often and have that rifle be top quality so when I do take it out for longer shooting it is still useful, not a big caliber that will be a closet ornament.

Also, the .22 LR caliber is not my choice, it is the only rifle caliber allowed at my pistol range so it has to be something that I can use often. Another poster in another forum (TFL) mentioned using .17 caliber for this type of rifle for better ballistics that is not allowed inside the pistol range so I really have no choice on the caliber. The .22 LR is more about convenience and frequency of usage for me.

ArmedBear said:
A Swarovski or other scope in its price range would not be overkill on this rifle, since you'll be bored with normal .22 shooting pretty quickly, and will want to start shooting dime-sized targets at 50 yards and then farther away...
Click to expand...

You sound like someone that I spoke to at my range regarding scopes. However, I don't see myself spending $1,500+ on the rifle and then the same amount on a Swarovski, Zeiss, or Shmidt & Bender scope when the most frequent usage for the rifle will be in-door and eventually outdoor. I am thinking that a mid-quality scope would satisfy both these requirements, something like the Zeiss Conquest line since it is very well recommended by many posters. I still want to look more into the other scopes that other people mentioned like the Bushnell 4200's that have been mentioned.

I'm still hoping for more feedback on this issue before I make a decision. Thanks for the current replies everyone and I'm looking for more.
 
I have a Bushnell 4200 4-16x40 on my HM2. Had it 3yrs and it has been flawless.
 
$1,500+ on the rifle and then the same amount on ...
Click to expand...

Lots of people think that. But the fact is, you're wasting your money on that rifle if you don't put a scope on it that lives up to its accuracy. You can get very nice .22's that are almost as accurate for a lot less cash. Good ones.

Hell, my stock Marlin 60 will shoot jagged large one-hole groups at a pistol range with cheap ammo and a $50 Simmons on it, and the rifle cost me 120 bucks brand new this year. I have an old H&R revolver that will do nearly that. That Volquartsen will bore you very quickly if you're not challenging your ability to hit tiny targets.

I am thinking that a mid-quality scope would satisfy both these requirements
Click to expand...

You'll just spend your money on another scope later. Might as well get an appropriate scope now.

The guy you talked to was right. You'll find out sooner or later.

The scope you want in order to hit a deer at 150 yards is different from the scope you want in order to hit a dime at 100 yards (or a dot at 25 or 50). And anything less will be boring, after a couple of sessions.

That's not to say that a Bushnell 4200 isn't a good scope. It might work perfectly for you.

But the rule of thumb for a rifle like that has long been: if you want to do it justice, spend as much on the scope as you did on the rifle.
 
Alright I'll bite the bullet ArmedBear and I will agree with you about spending the money the first and only time on the best scope. At my range I shoot my pistols and when I don't get a one ragged hole per magazine I do not feel satisfied so I can see the same thing will happen with this rife.

But I have to wonder if the top of the line $1,500 to $2,200 scope makes sense or if one of the 800 to 1,000 scopes might not be enough? How much actual difference in quality would there be between a Zeiss Conquest line and Swarovski. Is there such a thing as too much Optics? We are talking about 100 yard distances here.

But now the other consideration is how much magnification? 3-9X, 4.5-15X, 6.5-20X? Would 4.5 or 6.5 be too much at 17-yards?
 
Leupold VX-II 3-9x33mm Rimfire EFR - $349.95

That one right there will do very nicely for close range indoor, as well as outdoor shooting.

If you want a pure super-powerful Target scope, with a tiny field of view and dim optics, it is probably not the one for you.

But if you want an excellent scope for all-around .22 hunting & target shooting at 10 - 200 yards, that one will do it. Bright, wide field of view, solid as a rock, and affordable. They are built to handle Magnum centerfire & air rifle recoil, so no .22RF is going to bother one in the slightest.

BTW: Forget the BSA crap! I went through 3 of them trying to get one to adjsut right & stay together on a .177 air rifle!

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
i just don't think it matters that much for such short distances.

it seems simple enough to me to test. Spend $100 on a cheap scope and see if you can put all your shots into a single hole in your indoor range. If you can, and i strongly suspect you will, what more do you want?

the reason i advocate quality on long range scopes is to get knobs you can turn and the return to EXACTLY where it was, instead of kinda where it was. and to get knobs where a click in the center of the travel is the same as a click near the edge of the travel, etc. and for reticles that are correctly sized.

at indoor distances, with 22lr, i just don't think any of those things matter. and because of the way indoor ranges are typically illuminated, i doubt you'll have difficulty seeing your holes with even the cheapest glass.

and if it turns out you can't put all your shots into the same hole with a cheap scope, you're not out much, and you'll have something to compare the new expensive glass to. and if it won't adjust correctly, return it.
 
If you want a pure super-powerful Target scope, with a tiny field of view and dim optics
Click to expand...

LOL You haven't looked through a good one. And you don't have to crank it all the way up in magnification if you don't want to, either.

BTW the main reason you want a high-end scope is twofold: one is that the image is bright, and the other is that it has as little distortion, chromatic aberration, etc., as possible.

Any distortion in the optics, even if you can't consciously "notice" it, causes fatigue. So does a dim image.

There's no sense whatsoever in shooting a super-accurate semiauto .22 if your eyes get tired after 25 shots, or even 50 shots. Get a bolt gun if you only want to shoot a few rounds here and there; you get equal accuracy for a much lower price, and it's a lot quicker and easier to clean.

Again, with a .30-06 deer rifle, even when you're sighting it in or practicing, you might go through 20-30 shots. You won't notice the eye fatigue. A decent scope is all you need, not a top-end one.

But with a .22LR target semiauto with a fancy stock designed for maximum comfort and perfect fit, presumably you'll shoot hundreds of rounds at a sitting. If your scope causes any sort of eye fatigue, you've defeated the purpose of this high-end gun. Who needs perfect gun fit and a custom semiauto action and heat-defying bull barrel, if your eyes give out long before anything else does, due to limitations in the optics?

Scope quality is not just about distance. Fatigue due to eyestrain can happen at 25 yards, too.

I usually shoot lever action .22s at the pistol range. I find it fun and challenging to shoot small groups offhand with irons, and it builds practical skills I want in the field.

But if you want to go for the ultra-accurate perfect semiauto .22 setup, with adjustable stock, bipod and all, don't forget to take care of your eyes, too. That's what a super-high-end scope is all about.

And rc's right, stay away from the BSA, regardless.:)

For the record, I'm not a snob about this stuff. I don't own a $1000 rimfire target scope, or a rifle to put it on. My interests run in different directions. But I've certainly looked through these scopes when I was toying with ARA benchrest competition and wanted to price out equipment, and there is a difference in the image you see. ARA is shot at "only" 50 yards, but competitors use high-end scopes, and for good reason.

Just like the Volquartsen itself, if you really want the best performing equipment, it costs a LOT more than the decent stuff that isn't the best. Since you're dropping $1500 on a Volquartsen, I'm assuming you want the best, because while there is some junk out there, there are some excellent .22's for a lot less than you're paying. If you're paying $1500, I'm assuming you have a reason to want the best performance you can get.
 
ArmedBear said:
If you're paying $1500, I'm assuming you have a reason to want the best performance you can get.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying about the clarity of optics and that is why I primarily focused on the mid-to-high quality optics and looked at and listed the other manufacturer scopes for comparison and completeness to round out my research.

One thing that I did before starting this thread is check on the Leupold brand and after reading countless posts by users who swore by Leupold until they saw a scope from the top 3 manufactures. Along those lines the Zeiss Conquest was mentioned as a better alternative to Leupold VX-III or better scopes with multiple references to better quality and better nighttime visibility.

I also saw references to other manufacturers such as Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, or a Zeiss Victory scopes. However, when I checked their prices and saw $1,500 - $2,200 for the better magnification scopes I had to take a step back and consider that these scopes were overpriced for the purpose that I had this rifle in mind.

Honestly, no matter how much you praise a ~$1,800 scope about the quality and clarity it is still 18 x $100 for a scope. I saw the Zeiss Conquest line being mentioned very favorably as a much better choice than any of the other mid-range quality scopes and as a very affordable entry into the high-quality scopes.

Truly, how much difference in percentage of improvement overall would there really be between the two scopes below? Would there really be 131% improvement between these scopes or 157% improvement because that is the difference in price. Does this mean that the Swarovski and Schmidt & Bender scopes are twice as good as the Zeiss Conquest? I think not. These scopes maybe 10-30% better or even 50% better but I really have to wonder if they are 100%+ better? I think that the price premium for these scopes is too high, double goes for that when you consider the purpose of this rifle.

Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 Rifle Scope - $749.95
Swarovski 4-16x50 Professional Hunter 30mm Riflescope - $1,738.95
Schmidt & Bender Variable Hunting 4-16x50 30mm Riflescope - $1,928.95

Honestly, I have to put my foot down and at this time I have to say that the Zeiss Conquest line is as high as I am willing to go on price because I do not see myself spending twice the money for less than twice the performance on a rifle that will shoot at best 100-yards. When I return in a few months or years and make a post about the next .308 based rifle on an acurized Remington 700 action with a heavy bull barrel build to 0.0001-inch tolerances going for somewhere between $2,500-$4,000 then we can open up the floor to to the top three manufacturers because I'll be hitting distances of 300-1,000-yards or until the bullet hits the ground, but until then they are off the table.

I originally favored the 3-9x40 scope but now I might have to look into the one of the two other scopes below. At this point I favor the 4.5-14x44 because I just noticed that is offers parallax correction from 30-yards to infinity, and instead of the normal 50-yards for AO adjustable scopes. I'm worried that a 6.5X minimum magnification scope might be too powerful for in-door range use without gimping the rifle to be a benchrest queen.

However even at this time, I have not ruled out other scopes, ones of lower price at this point because I don't have enough information or feed back to go on.

Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 Rifle Scope - $749.95
Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50 Rifle Scope - $949.95
 
I am going the other way here, I just had a very annoying experience with parralax, on two very good scopes, at a 50 yd range. As I am an extremely picky shooter, this literally ruined my day. I would jump all over the airrifle rated scopes, if you need close in work. They are usually fixed power 4.32's, but if you can get a 3x9 , then get that. It looks like that burris will do the trick.
As another experience, I had a 40 year old weaver, el paso made, fixed power 4x, that i had mounted on a old but very accurate remmy 788 in 243. Now there is no way that with a 4 power , you can clearly see a 1 inch circle at 100 yds, But this scope had no prrlx whatsoever, so i just kept the crosshair in the exact middle of the target, by 'splitting the pie' , so to speak, and those old 788's are so front heavy , all the weight is in the bbl, I knew once I got it thoroughly rested in the bags, it wouldn't move, not even with recoil.
So after a good zeroing session, i put 5 rounds down , on the next circle. 1 min rest between shots. I go down to check it out, and with a 4 power scope, I had one big jagged hole at 100 yds, with a 4 power scope.
The lesson? Don't give prrlx even a breath of a chance, if you are a picky shooter.
 
The scopes I had were a Tasco 3x9 cheapie, but japan made, and a Bushnell, oldie, green label, with Bausch and Lombe glass. The latter one really pissed me off, the prrlx just seemed to scream at me, with the slightest of movement.
If you want to do some good target work at 100 yds as well, get the burris 4x12, as it makes a big improvement over 9 power at 100 yds. And you are right, 4 power is as high as you want at about 15 yds, 6 power will simply look huge. The burris uses great glass, now made by Meade telescopes, so i would have no probs getting one of their air rifle rated boys.
 
Parallax Adjustable (50-yard minimum)

Leupold VX-II 3-9x33mm Rimfire EFR - $349.95
Click to expand...

The 3-9X33 EFR will crank down to 10m. Along with rc, also my first choice for regular and sporter .22s (with target turrets added).
 
6.5x isn't really too much for a little hunting, paperpunching, metal silhouettes, tin cans, etc. 6.5x-20 makes a nice scope. 36x is perfect for 50-yard benchrest.

"Get a bolt gun if you only want to shoot a few rounds here and there; you get equal accuracy for a much lower price"

Do you mean I didn't have to buy a Cooper Custom Classic to get an accurate .22? Dang it. ;)

www.cooperfirearms.com/custom_classic.html

(And when did they raise the list price to $2100? Ouch.)

5 years ago - when my father was only 80 - I showed up at the range with a silver Weaver T-36 on the Cooper just to irritate him. He ignored me. I asked him if he'd like to try it on his Python. He ignored me even more. I did manage to talk him into a Silver/Black UltraDot on his stainless S&W 647 .17 HMR.

Oh, and all Leupold scopes are airgun rated.

And although I've never spent more than $600 on a scope, I can see why people do it.

John
 
My Weaver Grand SLam 6.5-20 AO goes below 15 yards, and it's as clear and precise an optic as you will find under $1k. natchezss.com often has them on sale for under $300.
 
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