What is an inline good for?

[brewer12345]

A few years back one company was claiming their rifles were capable of 200 yards. I don't remember who that was, just the ads and the claim, and a picture of a space-age futuristic looking rifle with a scope and a ram-rod.

If a guy wanted to, he could sight a 1861 Springfield or 1853 Enfield in for 200 yards easy with open sights, flip-up rear for 100, 150 and 200 yards, or use a good tang sight. Or, said guy could put a scope on it, which would be weird to me, but...none of my business. !!! Wouldn't need any pellets, shotgun primers, sabots or bullets with red plastic noses. !

I don't know what distance the flip up sights on my Zouave are designed for, but it must be in the hundreds of yards. A minie would easily kill a deer out there. The problems would be very uncertain shot placement and the fact that my vision won't cut it. With a scoped 30-06 I would have no problem taking a 400 yard shot. Hence my question.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I forget, but the rifle sights on the Remington Contract Rifle (Zouave) are something like 100, 300 and 500. Of course that's for shooting at people and horses, or people on horses. Or horses pulling a field piece or a wagon full of ammo. For sure, one would want to practice often with such a set-up with a minie' rifle, and perhaps up the service charge a few grains.

A good rifleman who knew his rifle, and practiced often, would probably out-shoot the inexperienced, or casual shooter with a scoped inline. Heck, there is people out there who have a problem hitting anything over 50 yards with a scoped .30-06. !!!

 

[brewer12345]

I forget, but the rifle sights on the Remington Contract Rifle (Zouave) are something like 100, 300 and 500. Of course that's for shooting at people and horses, or people on horses. Or horses pulling a field piece or a wagon full of ammo. For sure, one would want to practice often with such a set-up with a minie' rifle, and perhaps up the service charge a few grains.

A good rifleman who knew his rifle, and practiced often, would probably out-shoot the inexperienced, or casual shooter with a scoped inline. Heck, there is people out there who have a problem hitting anything over 50 yards with a scoped .30-06. !!!

I had bifocals when I was 12 and am close to legally blind in one eye without contacts or glasses. Within the limits of my eyesight, I shoot enough to make the shots no problem. Beyond that, gotta have a scope.

 

[ACES&8S]

People that shoot the old stuff seem to feel special, like it was good then and better people used them.
Yep, that's what me and my best friend fuss about a lot, I really admire him because when we go in the woods
hunting together he carries the Flintlock he made himself and it is beautiful and accurate, I would love to have
one but I would never shoot it as long as I can shoot his.
But I carry an Encore 45 caliber with a leupold scope on top, but maybe I think I am special cause I
have a leupold scope on a t/c encore. Because it is several years old and busted a good buck just this
morning. However according to black powder progress, I am way behind with all the advances made
since I got mine, so maybe I am happy with the old fashion t/c inline 209.

 

[hawg]

Feeling special has nothing to do with it. It irks us(me anyway)that the only reason people get inlines is just to take advantage of a special season. They can't bother to learn how to shoot a traditional rifle with iron sights. If they can't use a scope they won't go. The TC and CVA Hawken's etc. aren't anywhere near a real Hawken but we don't gripe about them. There's really nothing primitive about a scoped inline.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

There's really nothing primitive about a scoped inline.

Just wait 3000 years.

 

[hawg]

Just wait 3000 years.

In 3000 years there won't be any guns or deer left.

 

[noelf2]

Feeling special has nothing to do with it. It irks us(me anyway)that the only reason people get inlines is just to take advantage of a special season. They can't bother to learn how to shoot a traditional rifle with iron sights. If they can't use a scope they won't go. The TC and CVA Hawken's etc. aren't anywhere near a real Hawken but we don't gripe about them. There's really nothing primitive about a scoped inline.

You keep saying "primitive", but the season says muzzleloader. What irks me is people jumping to the false conclusion that the "only reason" people get inlines is to somehow cheat a hunting season that for most of us doesn't exist... primitive. You and I have been on these forums for a long time and you know I own, like, and hunt with what you would consider primitive style guns. I didn't start out with inlines, but they have a place in my plans. I guess you are just going to be irked, whatever the facts.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Let me ramble a bit. I’m a traditional archer and a former hand tool only woodworker so I sympathize with the dismay of competing with modern equipment. There probably is not much new to say here in this 7th page of discussion anyway.

A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader but a muzzleloader is not necessarily a primitive weapon.

Someone once made a thread awhile back about how semantics matter. I think semantics really matter in this interesting debate. I know the terms “muzzleloader” and “primitive weapon” are often used designate certain special hunting seasons but they also have distinct and separate meanings on their own. Even though the titles of each state’s “muzzleloader” or primitive weapons” season varies, the people participating in said seasons with their tool of choice may not understand the spirit of the title or the technicalities of the real definitions of each.

Is a modern inline simply a low technology but modern single shot rifle?
Is a traditional flintlock made on modern CNC machines primitive?
Is a percussion side lock too great of a technological leap from flintlocks to be considered primitive?

I came from a state that had a “muzzleloader” season. I wanted to participate in that muzzleloader season so went off and bought a muzzleloader. I wanted a Lyman Deerstalker percussion gun but they were too danged expensive so I really cheaped out and bought a CVA Staghorn kit with scope bullets and tools for $99. Inlines can provide a low cost of entry into these special seasons as well. Which is also something I believe is nagging at the back of many of the folks who naysay inlines.

That Staghorn was downright primitive by most inlines these days though. It did have 209 ignition and pellets for propellant which is of course another thorn. I now have an inline that is the most useless cheap piece of garbage that I still managed to make reliable and shoot right and I also have a Hawken percussion rifle. The Hawken is definitely my preferred rifle even though the range is much shorter with the upgraded Marbles open sights (primitive?). IOW, I play both ways. I’m on the lookout for a cheap TC Omega(older inline technology) as we speak.

Here in GA however, we have a “primitive weapons” season. Pretty much the same weapon requirements as the aforementioned “muzzleloader” season in MI. To name something a name will invoke certain thoughts and feelings in those who read it. A primitive weapons season that allows inlines definitely paves the way for single shot smokeless cartridge rifles. It may never come to that though. We can shoot 12 deer per year here though and I suppose anything that hastens the goal of population management will be allowed. We can also use air rifles and muzzleloaders of 30 cal and above. A very small caliber requirement for either but nevertheless legal.

Here we are, badgering the heck out of inlines as being too modern for a primitive weapon…..meanwhile in Mississippi you can use legitimate single shot smokeless cartridge rifles in cartridges that were designed a certain amount of years ago. Different states and different regs. Things are done a bit differently in the South.

 

[hawg]

You keep saying "primitive", but the season says muzzleloader. .

Here the season says primitive.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

What amazes me is folks thinking 100 yards is such a far distance, its 300 feet, not a half mile. Round balls shed energy pretty fast out past 200 yards but a good solid bullet like a Lee REAL will do a number on a steel ram silhouette target at 500 yards. If it can knock that down at that range it will also knock a deer down. Same thing with the 30/30 cartridge, lots of " it only shoots 100 yards", personally witnessed a deer kilt at 400 yards by my grandfather.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

In 3000 years there won't be any guns or deer left.

Do'H!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

In Washington state, when they first instituted ML season, it was in addition to modern rifle, or "regular" rifle season, and you could buy a tag for both. So an awful lot of guys were buying two tags per season. I would guess the Game dept. made a lot of extra bucks. I used to think ML season was created for us Danial Boone types, but now I'm seeing a monetary motive. ?

After a few years it became either/or, one tag only and you had to choose between modern rifle and ML. However, ML season allowed "any deer", you could shoot a doe. That eventually morphed into the same buck-only requirements of of modern season. The only thing ML has now is a few late season limited "any Elk" areas, which are few. Lucky for me one is two miles from my house. Unlucky for me, all the Elk here move over to the wildlife refuge as soon as hunting season opens. We have a lot of Elk here, but catching one on state land, when the refuge is only six miles away, is really difficult.

This year's late ML deer season was buck-only, and near home here it was buck only, 3-point minimum. !!

So now I don't see where the state makes any money off of ML tags. Perhaps that is why they have no interest in keeping the season "traditional", if they ever did. I think that if they changed the requirements to strictly traditional now, they would lose 75% of the ML tags they sell. At least.

The only real advantage now is that ML season comes before rifle season, you get to hunt before the regular season and the game becomes really spooked. You would think there would only be the Daniel Boone types out, but as I'm mentioned before, I rarely see other hunters out with traditional muzzle loaders. If the motivation is not tradition, or selling more tags, I'm kind of surprised we have any ML season at all. And since the Wolves are decimating the deer and elk, here and in Idaho, I'm not seeing where much game management is taking place through hunting. ?

I still think the choice between modern and traditional ML's is mostly a matter of taste, and whether one is into tradition and history, or not. And who one associates with, will steer a new hunter one way or the other, and of course all the other reasons stated.

 

[hawg]

We haven't had tags here since I was a young teenager. Primitive weapons season is a joke now. For the first season it includes breech loading cartridge rifles with an external hammer and smokeless powder with scopes in .35 caliber and up. The H&R Handi Rifle in .35 Whelen and 45-70 is king here. On private land for the rest of the primitive weapons seasons it's your choice of any rifle that's legal during regular gun season. So, you can use an AR with 30 round mags during primitive weapons season. The plus side is you aren't likely to find an inline in any box store in the state.

 

[FL-NC]

If they are compliant with the applicable laws, they aren't a "short cut"- they are just compliant. Obey the rules and use what makes you happy. What makes me happiest is success- no matter what I decide to use (and always complaint).

 

[ACES&8S]

If they are compliant with the applicable laws, they aren't a "short cut"- they are just compliant. Obey the rules and use what makes you happy. What makes me happiest is success- no matter what I decide to use (and always complaint).

That's the best I have heard it said, just obey the laws, stay out of the grey areas, and represent true hunters in a way that shows
we are together and can share the same campfire.
In the true advance of muzzleloaders, you also see states like mine where they allow an early muzzleloader season which at first was for hammer guns only,
then inlines were allowed WITHOUT a scope, then 2 years later a scope on any of them which I have no doubt made the success rate jump thru the roof.
Yet the deer herd is growing, and another thing worthy of attention is that so many new hunters- if you can find one- don't own an old muzzleloading hammer gun.
I am sure most of us here own one and have memories of how difficult they were to keep dry or even go off when all seemed ok. But the animals we harvested with them
was a true adventure, an adventure I have finished and gone on to the dark side with inlines.

 

[hawg]

I am sure most of us here own one and have memories of how difficult they were to keep dry or even go off when all seemed ok.

This is the part I have trouble understanding. I've hunted in the rain with a sidelock and never had one fail to fire because of it. The only times I had a failure to fire was from caps that lost their priming. Now I inspect every cap I put on one. Well there was that one time I dry balled but you didn't hear that from me.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

Too bad so many folks look down on other's choices of what to hunt with and somehow feel superior for some reason instead of welcoming others into the fold.

 

[Fishingted]

I do Just About all my deer hunting with an inline muzzle Loader regardless of season. I did not get into them for any other reason than to have a Very accurate alternative to Slug shotguns, I hunted in an area I could not use hi powered rifle in. This area did have a lot of Field where longer range opertunities were availabe. The first deer I shot with my inline was a true 135 yards. I realize that some modern shotgun slug set ups can come close to muzzle loading accuracy. But have you seen the price of the sluggs. No Thanks. I do get some stares when I show up in fire arm season with a muzzle Loader. All I can say is make the first Shot count.

 

[Fishingted]

In Washington state, when they first instituted ML season, it was in addition to modern rifle, or "regular" rifle season, and you could buy a tag for both. So an awful lot of guys were buying two tags per season. I would guess the Game dept. made a lot of extra bucks. I used to think ML season was created for us Danial Boone types, but now I'm seeing a monetary motive. ?

After a few years it became either/or, one tag only and you had to choose between modern rifle and ML. However, ML season allowed "any deer", you could shoot a doe. That eventually morphed into the same buck-only requirements of of modern season. The only thing ML has now is a few late season limited "any Elk" areas, which are few. Lucky for me one is two miles from my house. Unlucky for me, all the Elk here move over to the wildlife refuge as soon as hunting season opens. We have a lot of Elk here, but catching one on state land, when the refuge is only six miles away, is really difficult.

This year's late ML deer season was buck-only, and near home here it was buck only, 3-point minimum. !!

So now I don't see where the state makes any money off of ML tags. Perhaps that is why they have no interest in keeping the season "traditional", if they ever did. I think that if they changed the requirements to strictly traditional now, they would lose 75% of the ML tags they sell. At least.

The only real advantage now is that ML season comes before rifle season, you get to hunt before the regular season and the game becomes really spooked. You would think there would only be the Daniel Boone types out, but as I'm mentioned before, I rarely see other hunters out with traditional muzzle loaders. If the motivation is not tradition, or selling more tags, I'm kind of surprised we have any ML season at all. And since the Wolves are decimating the deer and elk, here and in Idaho, I'm not seeing where much game management is taking place through hunting. ?

I still think the choice between modern and traditional ML's is mostly a matter of taste, and whether one is into tradition and history, or not. And who one associates with, will steer a new hunter one way or the other, and of course all the other reasons stated.

One Thing about it You still only have one shot to Get the Job Done.