What is it?

[au_prospector]

There is a story behind this.
Picture says it all, dull greyish silver discs with a slight overall green hue. The guy who gave it to me says it is a popular pistol powder which will be easily recognized by anyone who has loaded with it or shot it in the past. I have several recipes for 9mm, .38 spl, and .45ACP which seem to go along with maybe Bullseye? Well I only know Unique and this isnt Unique.

I can get more, but would feel better if some of you more experienced fellows would say they recognize it as XXXXX without a doubt.

I guess the whole story surrounds the obvious mystery about the powder. He provided me some to help me out with pistol powder. He got it from where he works and they told him he could not divulge the make/model.

 

[joustin]

I would not want to use it but it looks like Bullseye

 

[Blue68f100]

Fertilizer ....

 

[treemaker]

Fertilizer ....

Yes.

 

[243winxb]

More photos here http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa

 

[vongh]

What's with all the secrecy. Why isn't your friend allowed to tell you what it is. Getting free or discounted powder isn't worth it to me as far as safety is concerned. I looked at the bullseye I have and the flakes look smaller than the ones in the picture. I also looked at some IMR 800x the flakes look to be the right size but darker in hue.

 

[au_prospector]

Known ammunition manufacturer in my area received a double order of their pistol powder. Was willing to share except for the manufacture, they dont want their supplier to know powder is going out the door to reloaders. Its not fertilizer. I have recipes.

Side by side with Unique it is slightly larger perfectly round discs. Very light color. Slight green tint.

 

[Havok7416]

Who the hell hands over powder without saying what it is beyond "it's popular". Throw it away. There is no way to tell what powder it is "without a doubt" over the internet, and possibly not even in person.

 

[243winxb]

I have several recipes

Are the recipes from the ammunition manufacturer?? If so, then its usable powder.

 

[au_prospector]

Yes recipes from the ammunition manufacturer.

 

[mackg]

Compare with Red Dot/Promo. Be aware that Ammo makers get lots of Red Dot with slightly variable speeds they adjust to (Promo is made by blending such lots); your lot and recipes might not match.

I would treat it as Clays, and use starting loads for a heavier bullet in a 40 or 45 auto, or reduce the data he gave you.

 

[FROGO207]

Start really low and watch the speed of things and work up to the data provided by them. Then compare the speed/grains to known propellants with that weight bullet. It MIGHT be something you can cross reference. Otherwise your data is only what they will help you with. Look now at your bullet weights and grains and compare with book values in that caliber, something might be close. BUT trying to use a mystery propellant is not for most reloaders---especially a newer reloader that does not have a lot of experience with how a bunch of different loads "feel" when shot and the ability to compare using a chronograph. Just saying----If you have to ask it is unwise IMHO.

 

[newfalguy101]

Coming from an ammo manufacturer, I would dump it on my garden as I do NOT own the needed equipment to accurately determine the pressure the load is developing.

Bulk powder the ammo guys get is NOT the same thing reloaders get!!

 

[au_prospector]

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=116

Visually this is an exact match though my sample appears to be larger than 1mm across.

 

[mackg]

Whoa... didn't know that site...

Look under Alliant for current production.

 

[sauer1911]

Looks like 700X FERTILIZER to me.

enjoy

be safe

 

[Swampman]

Anyone who tells you that they can look at a photograph of powder on the internet and tell you they "recognize it as XXXXX without a doubt." Is full of something, and its NOT knowledge of modern reloading propellants!

Small arms propellants are a global business and just because something "looks" like Bullseye, doesn't mean that's what it is. It could just as easily be something rejected by the Nigerian Ordinance Factory or the Indian arsenal at Dum Dum. It could also be 50 or 60 years old and depleted of stabilizers.

Known ammunition manufacturer in my area received a double order of their pistol powder. Was willing to share except for the manufacture, they dont want their supplier to know powder is going out the door to reloaders. Its not fertilizer. I have recipes.

The guy who gave it to me says it is a popular pistol powder

I'm no MBA, but I've gotta say that i have a hard time understanding the profitability of this business model. When you add that to the secrecy surrounding the identity of the powder????

Something smells here and its not the sweet ether/acetone scent of double base pistol powder...

If you decide to use this stuff, start low (with a gun you don't particularly like) and figure out a way to pull the trigger with a lllooonnnggg string.

It might not hurt to keep a lawyer on retainer just in case local law or the ATF ever starts looking into this. Free mystery powder from a federally licensed ammunition manufacturer is the sort of thing to elicit interest from all sorts of alphabet agency's.

 

[au_prospector]

CSB-1

For what its worth, this turned out to be CSB-1.
It is now being sold by labeled as such. All makes sense as there is a RIO shotgun shell manufacturing facility close by.

Works pretty good in my 9mm Beretta. Seems to be cleaner than the Unique loads I use.

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for the update! I could have never guessed CSB-1 as I never used it.

My best guess would have been WST but the grains in the picture were too uniform and I am used to taking detailed pictures of pistol powders - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9366977#post9366977

So "Fertilizer" was the correct answer?

 

[ReloaderFred]

There are loads listed for the Spanish Maxam powders now, so you should be able to find other data for it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[guncheese]

i wouldnt use it in 45 unless you really needed to
its just to slow to be economical
im running it in 9mm and 40
here is some 9mm chrono data
using CSB-1

black & blue bullet 0.356 tc hi-tek 125gr
3.8-3.9gr csb-1. 1.120
5" 1911
# FPS
7 1013
6 1025
5 1016
4 1007
3 1017
2 1039
1 1033
Average: 1021.43
StdDev: 11.43
Min: 1007
Max: 1039
Spread: 32

black & blue bullet 0.356 tc hi-tek 125gr
4.1-4.2gr csb-1 1.120"
5" 1911
# FPS
9 1049
8 1069
7 1073
6 1057
5 1059
4 1077
3 1074
2 1082
1 1065
Average: 1067.22
StdDev: 10.64
Min: 1049
Max: 1082
Spread: 33

LEE 0.356 356-120-TC 120
3.8 gr csb-1 1.070" powdercoat
5" 1911
# FPS
9 1033
8 1002
7 1040
6 1009
5 1007
4 997
3 1012
2 1005
1 964
Average: 1007.67
StdDev: 21.70
Min: 964
Max: 1040
Spread: 76


black & blue bullet 0.356 tc hi-tek 125
4.1-4.2gr csb-1 glock 34 1.120"
# FPS
10 1075
9 1075
8 1055
7 1066
6 1079
5 1081
4 1075
3 1079
2 1065
1 1077
Average: 1072.70
StdDev: 8.17
Min: 1055
Max: 1081
Spread: 26


LEE 0.356 356-120-TC 120 powder coat
4.1-4.2gr csb-1 1.070 glock 34
hots
# FPS
9 1103
7 1083
6 1077
5 1084
4 1062
3 1081
2 1090
1 1088
Average: 1080.7
StdDev: 9.30
Min: 1062
Max: 1103
Spread: 41

pretty sure that a 120-125gr 9mm will happy with 4.0-4.2gr
well for my liking anyway
should be plenty of room for more speed
ill be doing more work next week

 

[1SOW]

It also looks much like CSB-5 which is a much faster powder. Almost white/light grey color
With CSB 5, two of the discs will just fit in a 9mm case flash hole--

4.2/4.3 grains will run nicely with 9mm 124/125 gr jacketted bullets. That's about 3/4+ casefull.

 

[au_prospector]

Guncheese!!! Thanks for the chrono data sir! That makes me feel better. I was thinking the same thing on .45 also since it is a lower pressure round. I would add that I have the same thoughts about not using it in .38 special even though there is data for it. It might be better suited for .357 mag? What do you think?

 

[guncheese]

i would think so as well
and they seem to not have a issue with running it up in pressure
i would think .357 .44mag and even .41 mag would all run well with this stuff in medium/lighter loads

tonight i just loaded up some 9mm with the Lee 105gr SWC powder coated and sized to .358" over 4.5-4.6gr of CSB-1 should be a smooth fast shooter
will have chrono on that later

 

[Hardtarget]

Tell your "friend" to just tell you what the crap is so you can get good SAFE loading info. You don't have to tell ANYONE...just shoot and be happy.

DON"T BLOW UP YOUR GUN!

Or give it back with a polite "no thanks". Just don't load any mystery powder.

Mark