What is the best ak47 for the money

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I have been thinking of getting a few AK's for a while now.

Which of these is the most accurate?

What kind of accuracy can be expected from them?

I have heard great reports on the AK-74's chambered for 5.45, what about the standard 7.62 offerings?
 
I"m really considering an Arsenal SGL 21 right now. Is it true that the finish is easily scratched or flakes off? I was really impressed with Nuntnfancy's review on youtube.
 
If the choice could include a rifle which looks similar, is in the same caliber and has its own unique magazine, a Czech VZ-58.

The action and components are totally different. You might be surprised how many people prefer these to AK clones.

HM2PAC: You might want to look up the problems caused by over-sized bores in many AK-74 clones assembled by Century.
Century Arms was quite aware that many barrels had over-sized bores, and bullets 'keyholed' at 100 yards.
The detailed report of experiences by Mr. "Sturmgewehr" immediately caught my attention:scrutiny:.
 
You can buy a Saiga and convert it rather easily, and have an excellent rifle (I've done this) for about $500. Then run through the some items from the upgrade list below for the WASR, because many items apply to the Saiga rifles, as well. The downside to a Saiga is that many aftermarket parts won't fit a Saiga, though support is getting better.

Or you can buy a WASR and do some of these things:

* Test mag well to ensure polymer mags fit; steel mags usually fit OK with polys being snug or even too big. Dremmel mag well and/or fit poly mags.

* Check front sight base and gas block and correct with vise and rubber hammer, as required. Remove and repin if needed.

* Replace trigger group with G2 or RSA adjustable kit. Fit as required for smooth operation but with hammer block and safety working properly.

* Replace fire control group shepherds crook with retaining plate.

* Replace welded piston with a properly pinned unit.

* Replace Warsaw Pact length stock with Kvar NATO lenth. Pair with Magpul AFG or stubby vertical grip if you use a 'wrap-around' hold.

* Replace Com Bloc pistol grip with ergonomic grip that fits you best. Tapco SAW, US Palm, Mako, etc.

* Pull the safety lever away from the receiver far enough to ensure easy actuation, smooth inside as required.

* Dehorning and smoothing rough edges everywhere on mating surfaces, being careful on trigger components.

* Bench test with all commonly available ammo, from a shooting rest and using a good optic. Test with brake, forearm, and cleaning rod removed. Allow time to cool between shots.

* Repeat bench tests with the selected ammo trying different forearm styles and fits (loose or tight). Note how accuracy is affected and select a forearm that works for you and doesn't affect accuracy.

* Repeat bench tests using tight and loose gas tubes. Find out how your baseline mechanical accuracy changes with loose or tight tubes.

* Repeat bench tests with different muzzle brakes. Note how accuracy is affected and select a brake that works best for you and doesn't negatively affect accuracy and POI.

* Repeat bench tests with and without the cleaning rod attached and decide whether or not to install it on the rifle.

* Ensure the receiver cover is not pushing against the front trunion when installed. Grind enough material off the front edge for a better fit if it is pushing against the trunion.

* Benching the weapon again every time something is added, such as a light, new rail system, heavier scope, etc.

And you'll also have an excellent weapon - assuming you got a shooter - for around $450 and there will be enough aftermarket doo-dads to make it into whatever you can dream up.

I've done both. My Saiga-based AKs run flawlessly and are very accurate for battle rifles. My WASR 10/63s have been run very, very hard and never skipped a beat as long as the mags are good and are very accurate for AKMs.
 
Snakum said:
The downside to a Saiga is that many aftermarket parts won't fit a Saiga
No AK aftermarket parts will fit a factory Saiga.

If they don't fit after a conversion, that's the converter's fault for not converting it far enough back to original configuration.

All aftermarket AK parts will fit a fully converted Saiga.

The newer Saigas don't seem to need all the barrel work the earlier imports did, so there's really no excuse not to convert them back to original appearance.
 
Saigas sure do come out real well when converted to its natural form.

My Redjacket built Ak102.

1000009l.jpg
 
AR15 Lower with Wolff Heavy Hammer spring,
7.62 X 39mm Upper

BEST OF BOTH WORLDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE MINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

(heavier spring for consistent firing of Wolf ammo with harder Berdan primers)
 
Arsenal rifles are Russian-made Saiga rifles that are remanufactured with American made parts (furniture, trigger, etc.) to meet 922r requirements. If you want to save a little money, you could just buy the Saiga rifle and customize it yourself. Might be a fun project if you like tinkering with guns. If you don't want to go through that though, you could just buy the Arsenal rifle; that's what I choose to do since I don't trust myself with that kind of gunsmithing task.

Also keep in mind that rifles like the WASR-10 are based on the AKM design (aka the model most third-world militaries use), whereas the Arsenal rifles use a slightly updated design. For instance, the SGL-21 (7.62x39mm) model uses the AK-103 design developed in the mid-90s.

EDIT: There are also some features of the Arsenal that would be hard/impractical to add to a Saiga rifle by yourself, like mag well dimples in the receiver.
 
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I've been looking into AKs too recently. Still can't decide between 5.45x39 or 7.62x39. I have a preference for a folding stock and have been trying to avoid Century Arms as I'd likely be ordering online (local stores don't have much of an AK selection). So far here are some options I've selected, any thoughts?

Red Jacket AK 47 Rifle Polish Folder
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct984.aspx

Arsenal Inc SLR 107 CR Krinkov Style Rifle
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct707.aspx

AK74 Rifle Interarms IAC 74 Wood
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct949.aspx

Interarms Polish Tantal Rifle
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct875.aspx
 
@ AethelstanAegen:
I did some reading before buying my AK and the consensus among gun gurus seems to be that 5.45 is not a great round. Its greatest merit is that you can buy cheap mil surp ammo, but that's going to be corrosive. If I wanted a .22 carbine I'd go with an AR-15. For AKs, I'd stick with the classic 7.62x39mm. Then again, I'm a .30 cal and up kind of guy. :evil:

@ Mags:
That's true to an extent, but keep in mind it's called Krebs Custom for a reason. Most of the added value in a Krebs is in mods like railed handguards, top rails, collapsable stock, modded selector switch, and so on. Those things don't necessarily enhance the basic functionality of the rifle and generally make it heavier (and, of course, more expensive). I'm planning to put a collapsable stock on my SGL-21, but other than than I don't really feel the need for most of the Krebs-style mods.
 
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Its been said more times in this thread than anything else.....WASR. Its been said throughout the internet. Best bang for you buck is the WASR.

Everybody has one, they all shoot. Some better than others, but Ive had probably 4 different WASRs over the years and there was never one that I couldnt hit a coke can at a hundred with.

The finish is Parkerized, NOT PAINT that will flake off. Just get the WASR and dont let people with $800 AKs tell you any different, theyre just mad the Romainian stamped thing shoots as good as their high dollar Arsenal or Red Jacket.

Oh.....Did I mention, the WASR needs no conversion. EVERYTHING on the market today will bolt right on. The ultimate plug-n-play AK.
 
WASRs are a good value in that you don't get twice the rifle by going with an Arsenal, even though you're paying about twice as much. I've heard enough complaints about WASRs that I wouldn't want to bet my life on one though. I had the money, so the Arsenal made more sense for me. If you're on a tight budget though I'm sure you'd be well-served by a WASR.
 
Effigy said:
Arsenal rifles are Russian-made Saiga rifles that are remanufactured with American made parts (furniture, trigger, etc.) to meet 922r requirements.
No, they're not.

Arsenal, Inc was founded to sell AKs produced by Arsenal of Bulgaria. They have a large lineup (and are known for) their Bulgarian AKs.

Their addition of Saigas to their sales pool has only come about recently.

Arsenal rifles aren't "Saiga rifles", they're Bulgarian AKs.
Saigas are Saigas, no matter who imports them.
 
The Saigas sold in AK form are of two types:
A-Companies that convert the sporter versions using enough compliance parts like those already converting many of the saiga shotguns.
B-The ones exported from Legion customs that is a division of Izmash dedicated to prepare for exportation. This means the systems cannot come out in their natural form due to the AWB so further modifications are done by Arsenal to make them compliant.

So depending on your likes and dislikes if you want something original 100% all of it it will have to be a preban and prepare the wallet if you want a russian.

If you want the main components to be 100% Russian original then go for option A but conversions are being done by many folks that never held an screwdriver in their lives and you can find compliance parts to convert it in both modern look (ie: Tapco polymers) or classic look (ie: Timbersmith). In the end you will end up with a better US made trigger than the sporter version that doesn't belong there in the first place, the furniture and a couple of other things to bring the count up of compliance parts, but the main thing is that the pedigree will continue to be 100% Russian with the main components, receviers, trunions, barrel, gas block, carrier,etc... all nicely put together at the Izmash plan, the original parents of the AK.

The option B are great carbines too but it is unclear to me how many modifications they go through after they are sent by Legion customs and arrive here. For me when you start changing barrels, trunions and receivers that are perfectly ok as they come out of a Russian plant made with Russian steel and procedures they automatically loose their pedigree and therefore the value FOR ME.

For others might be different and I can understand that too as the world is full of different people with different likes and dislikes and interests.

Also there are some nice Molot Russian plant systems with beefed up receivers and barrels that are super accurate. They are not cheap but I think they are very popular so depending on your purpose you can consider this too. These can be easily converted too but are already expensive and require a different stock. I know a person that did it but I don't see the added value other than accepting both the original and high capacity mags.

Once you touch something no matter what you have to make sure the system is compliant.

Cheers,
E.
 
@ nalioth:
My rifle says Saiga right on it, and it's not the sporter model that Saiga sells directly. The SGL models are based on a Saiga receiver, barrel, and other important guts with US-made trigger group and furniture for 922r compliance. I don't know much about their Bulgarian models, but I think the company is most known for their converted Saiga rifles.
 
1stmarine said:
The option B are great carbines too but it is unclear to me how many modifications they go through after they are sent by Legion customs and arrive here. For me when you start changing barrels, trunions and receivers that are perfectly ok as they come out of a Russian plant made with Russian steel and procedures they automatically loose their pedigree and therefore the value FOR ME.
Where did this come from?

Arsenal does not replace barrels, trunnions or receivers.

This is how their Saigas are imported:
Saiga_SGL10.jpg

They replace the butt stock, pull out the Rube Goldberg 10-piece FCG and replace it and add a pistol grip, just like any other Saiga conversion.
 
Effigy,
Do you have the Russian markings in the barrel too? I just don't know how many changes they do to the SGL ones after Legion customs sends them to Arsenal.
Thanks.
 
NICE! I just didn't know. Thanks for clarifying. The SGL is worth every cent you pay for then. I was thinking to get one but I wasn't sure about the barrel/receiver situation. How did you get that picture? I tried to find out one day how they were coming but could not find anything. And I see that one has the dimples that is the way to go.
Cheers,
E.
 
Yeah, it seems like a nice piece of equipment. I haven't put it through much hard use yet, and of course Arsenal isn't the only game in town, but I'm happy with it. I'm considering trying a .308 Saiga conversion on my own at some point.
 
Yes! if that is the case this is coming up next in the shopping list!
The .308 in 16" are extremely accurate. I have four of the .308s all the same!
Last month I sold my M1A Socom as I could not make it shoot like this one believe it or not. Socom great system though but weight distribution is way off.
I posted the conversion here in case you are interested...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567005
Cheers,
E.
 
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