What is the best pistol for long range defense?

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

Every day people are shooting Government Model's, at fifty yard's in bullseye competition. This was a direct outgrowth of being able to fight "long range'' with hand guns.
If you are capable of COM hit's with a sub compact at longer range's then that just prove's that you have taken the time, energy, and monies to learn your weapon. This is not a negative as far as I, am concerned.

 

[hyattnc]

There is a time and place for everything. A CCW owner should train for all scenarios and long range shooting should be one of those scenarios. Imagine this, you are in a movie theatre sitting a ways back when you see flashes and hear the noise of a rifle. In that situation, a few well aimed shots could mean the difference between a few people killed and a lot of people killed.

A regular indoor range is good for familiarizing yourself with your pistol, but its not good for much else. You should include in your training realistic scenarios which are taking place right now.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Should I throw out there that there might not be any such thing as "defensive pistol" at 50+ yards? At that distance, you're on the OFFensive.

 

[silicosys4]

Hate to say it, but any LEO is going to tell you that if you are taking shots at 50+ yards, your obligation at that point is to be looking for a way out of the situation, to take the opportunity of range to disengage, not continuing to engage in a marginally effective role, as an untrained (to LE) civilian, at ranges where maintaining positive identification of your target is often difficult to impossible. Pistols are what you use to fight your way to a rifle, not to take long-range potshots with. That said, its fun to ring plates at 100+ yards with a pistol, and I find it pretty easy to hit a 15" plate at 100yds with my sig 1911.

 

[armoredman]

Just for the sake of argument, what about the ULTRA RARE possibility of defending a third person, such as the previously mentioned 357 mag shooter at the AR-15 armed nutjob? Don't forget the guy who tried to take out a nutjob on a courthouse steps with hie 1911, but the murdered had both armor and a rifle, IIRC.
Yep, it's a possibility that .0001% of us might actually face, but it's not completely without merit.

Of course, this depends on your location not penalizing good guys from doing good things, like that lifeguard getting a $2,600 bill for saving a kid on his own time.

 

[Lawdawg45]

To be completely fair, there is the very recent case of the elderly gentleman down in TX who shot a murderer who was setting up to ambush a Sheriff's Deputy, and he connected from about 165 feet away. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=670777)

So it isn't IMPOSSIBLE. Just cosmically unlikely.

I don't disagree with your comment, but allow me to interject the Defense Attorney mindset. The elderly gentleman while acting heroically, had no duty to respond nor was he in danger until he fired upon the suspect, drawing return fire. It wouldn't surprise me if the suspects family files a wrongful death suit against the man......and wins:banghead: That being said, I nominate this elderly man for a medal of honor.

LD

 

[silicosys4]

So....Lets look at it another way then. Anybody up for the lawsuit that would inevitably fall upon their heads if they should miss and wound an innocent passerby, shooting a pistol from long range? You would be CRUCIFIED. PERIOD. The DA DOES NOT want civilians shooting at people, regardless of the situation or circumstances, at such long ranges where the chance of a "blind bullet" scenario goes up exponentially. Don't know if any of you know who Jim Cirrillo was, (famous NYPD stakeout squad) but there was one gunfight he was describing where he was about to let himself be shot, rather than take a shot at a shooter with innocent civilians standing behind in the line of fire. He was a trained professional, doing his job, from about 20 feet away, and he didn't feel it was safe to take the shot due to the chance of missing and hitting innocents. You think you are a better marksman at 100 yards, or that "its ok you shot that kid....you were a long ways away and it was an accident, we know who you were aiming for" will count for you?

 

[hyattnc]

So lets say you are driving by a school yard when you see a man with a shotgun running around and shooting at the children. You immediately pull over and take cover behind a wall with your pistol and the shooter is about a 100 yards away. Would you take the conventional advice of "being a good witness" and would you be afraid of prosecution or violating the law by making a 100 yard shot with your CCW? At this point, would you worry about arrest or being convicted of murder? What would CNN, Obama or the Huffington Post say about you if you decided to take the shot?

 

[silicosys4]

Thats the world we live in, yes. I have asked the officer who caught the green river killer what to do if I see something like that. His answer? Be the best witness you can be. Memorize everything. DO NOT pull your pistol, you complicate the situation, and statistically, don't save any lives.

 

[hyattnc]

So just sit there behind the wall watching children get shot while waiting for the police to come who will ultimately stop the shooter. Then you will be a witness against him in court and you can testify that you personally watched him slaughter a hundred school children while you stood by and did nothing.

Honestly, I just cant believe this internet advice. Sigs rust, glocks explode, the 9mm doesnt stop and sit by and do nothing while innocent people get slaughtered.

 

[coolluke01]

Many handguns are very capable out too 100 and even 200 yards.

I have been doing some shooting at those distances recently. Off hand standing. I have been shooting 4 handguns at 100 yards. A Glock 34 and 26, a GP100 and a HK .45 (a friends).
I was able to hit a bowling pin at 100 yards with the first 3 but not with the HK.
I really like taking the G26 out to the 200 yard range and shoot at the 24" steel plate out there. It takes a few to find out where to hold and a good trigger squeeze but it's do able. I went 2 for 5 the last time I was out.

Let's just say I wouldn't feel safe at 200 yards when someone's pointing a handgun at me.

It would be perfectly justifiable to take a 100 yard shot on someone that is pointing a firearm at you. I have a youtube video to prove that a 100 yard bowling pin shot is very do able. I'm not going to wait for someone to lob a few shots at me before returning fire at 100 or even 200 yards. Run or if others are the target and they aren't able to get out of the way, make the best shot you can.

 

[Deaf Smith]

What is the best pistol for long range defense?

Real long range?

Oh my Ruger Super Redhawk .454 with scope and 200 grain JHPs at over 2200 fps.

Even if they have a Level III vest it's gonna hurt.

Deaf

 

[olderguns]

I always have my G29 with155 grain JHP, and in my center console I carry a Lonewolf 9x25 dillon barrel and extra mag of 125 grain 9x25 ammo,,, I think either would do for that range,
And it woud be a case by case base on whether I engage the shooter.......

 

[tarosean]

It wouldn't surprise me if the suspects family files a wrongful death suit against the man......and wins

It happened in TX..


We have laws that " abolishes the duty to retreat if the defendant can show he: (1) had a right to be present at the location where deadly force was used; (2) did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used; and (3) was not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used."

He will be protected from Civil action IMO...

 

[armoredman]

We're getting a Constitutional Amendment passed this November that says crime victims cannot be sued by the criminal/estate if the victim causes death or injury to the criminal during his criminal act.

 

[BCRider]

The one you practice with for long range shots.....

Most pistol rounds will have so much drop after 50 yards that unless you practice with YOUR gun, whatever it might be, shooting at that distance would be nearly useless without a goodly amount ofpractice behind you. You need that practice to know how much hold over to use or how much to stick the front sight up past the rear notch level to compensate for the bullet drop. The gun or ammo isn't going to do it for you.

 

[pockets]

To answer the original question; a rifle is the best 'pistol' for a long range shot.

We sure are exercising the imagination for some of the 'what if' scenarios in this thread. All that is missing are zombies. Illustrates to me that it is not only news people and non-gun-types who wander off into the deep end of goofy speculation after shootings make the news.

.

 

[45_auto]

Most pistol rounds will have so much drop after 50 yards that unless you practice with YOUR gun, whatever it might be, shooting at that distance would be nearly useless without a goodly amount ofpractice behind you.

<Deleted.> You need to look at some ballistic tables, and get out onto the practice range.

Most common pistol rounds drop about a foot at 100 yards if zeroed at 25 yards.

The reason for the useless shots at over 50 yards is the abysmal skills of the vast majority of shooters, where 25 yards is a challenging shot.

We shoot IDPA/IPSC silhouettes at 100 yards about every weekend. Aiming high center of mass will keep them all in the chest area. I usually use the "neck" (top of the cardboard "shoulder") as point of aim and can easily score 80%-90% in the A-zone.

From the Speer handbook:

 

[Squeaky Wheel]

Unless you can shoot like hickok45 (and have his level of knowledge and experience), you DON'T shoot at two legged targets at those distances.

 

[X-Rap]

If you shoot a rifle at unreasonably short distances why not shoot a handgun at longer ones.
It's to bad that for some, defensive shooting, hunting, and yes perhaps offensive shooting has to fit in such a neat little box.
To me I simply shoot and I try to do that well, if the time comes that I may need to use a weapon in what some might think an unconventional way I hope I am up to the task. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Bikewer]

I always enjoyed long-range pistol shooting. When I was still a young lad I read Elmer Kieth's fine old book, "Sixguns", and he goes into some detail on the technique and also the special front sights he had made up for same.

I found you could use the standard Smith & Wesson "red insert" front sight much the same way; using the edges of the insert.

The redoubtable Hickock45 shows he, at least, can effectively engage man-sized targets at 230 yards with various pistols, including a Glock 23 which is my duty gun.
The best handgun I ever used for such purposes was a Smith M29 with the 6-inch barrel... We used reduced loads pushing a 240 grain cast Kieth slug at about 900 fps.
Pretty easy to bounce milk jugs around at 100 yards.

Wouldn't want to carry one around, however....

 

[brnmuenchow]

What is the best pistol for long range defense?

That would look to much like planning on engaging from a distance and could get you a one way trip to prison. I would suggest sticking to the avg. defense handgun and practice taking defensive shots under 30yds.

 

[The Man With No Name]

So lets say you are driving by a school yard when you see a man with a shotgun running around and shooting at the children. You immediately pull over and take cover behind a wall with your pistol and the shooter is about a 100 yards away. Would you take the conventional advice of "being a good witness" and would you be afraid of prosecution or violating the law by making a 100 yard shot with your CCW? At this point, would you worry about arrest or being convicted of murder? What would CNN, Obama or the Huffington Post say about you if you decided to take the shot?

IMO if you really wanted to insert yourself into this and attempt to save some lives then you would first move closer to your target. I've met few people that were accurate enough at 100 yards to take a shot with a handgun.

Back on topic it is very doable depending on your level of practice at distance and your definition of what is compact. I consider my Glock 23C compact since it will fit in the front pocket of my off duty pants. I prefer it in a holster though.

 

[gyvel]

Mauser C96 7.63mm, or a Browning Hi-Power with a tangent sight.

 

[exiledtoIA]

coolluke - and when you can do that with screaming people running around mindlessly
between you and the target and more screaming people behind the target running around and incoming rounds hitting nearby. With all of that and NOT hitting one of the screaming people then I'll be impressed.