Pork Fat
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Mossberg NOT crap
nuff said.
nuff said.
What is the cheapest effective "homeland defense" arsenal?
- Thread starter epijunkie67
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chaim
Member
OK, from the sounds of the original post, SHTF, "homeland defense" and home defense and carry are also mentioned, it sounds like you are looking for a good overall "practical" use (as opposed to fun at the range) "arsenal" on a budget.
Pick one of these options from each catagory as funds allow (start with the concealable handgun if in a carry state, start with the long gun if not), then when/if funds allow more pick up a second from each for more versatility:
Long guns:
-12 ga pump shotgun. Yes, recoil can be brutal, especially to a non-shooter. However, they are great HD guns, and versatile in a "SHTF" situation (whether Katrina-like where you need a good HD gun, or total collapse where hunting for food as well as defense is needed). In addition to being one of the best HD guns, if you are a hunter (or if the SHTF in a total societal collapse) you can hunt everything from the smallest birds to the largest game with simple changes in your ammo selection. New you can still get a good Mossy or Rem for the $200-250 range, and used you can be under $200.
-SKS. Cheap, cheap ammo, more range than the shotgun, and still good for hunting deer sized game.
-Hi-Point Carbine. I had one that was a very reliable gun. Even though 9mm and .40S&W don't improve much with a carbine length barrel, you still have practical accuracy advantages over a handgun. Ammo is cheap and you can carry a lot of it if you need to. They are still under $200 new.
-30-30 lever gun. Can be topped off between shots, can be fired very quickly, decent power. A bit much for home defense in a populated area, but if you are in the country they are usable for HD and they are great for hunting deer sized game. Can still be found in the $250-300 range new, and great deals are available used.
-.357mag or .44mag lever gun. Most of the advantages of the 30-30 lever, you can carry more ammo and ammo is much cheaper, it is more suitable for home defense in a suburban or urban environment. The only disadvantage v. a 30-30 is cost (used you may find one around $300 or a tad less).
-.22lr semi-auto. Sure, it isn't the best defensive gun, but in a long gun it is acceptable. Cheap ammo means cheap practice (if you are poor ammo cost may mean more to you than the cost of the gun) which means more practice.
-.22mag semi-auto. Still cheaper than just about any centerfire and more "oomph" than a .22lr.
Concealable handguns:
-A used 3-4" barrelled K-frame .38 or .357. An OK size for carry, simple to use, reliable, accurate, and very versatile (especially the .357mag). .38spl practice ammo is relatively inexpensive, and both calibers are extremely easy to learn to reload for to save even more money. You can find the .38s in the $200 range used, $300 for a new Taurus 82. You can find the .357s starting in the $250 range used, $300-350 new for the Taurus 65.
-A used 2" S&W J-frame or Taurus 85. Much more concealable than the K-frame, most of the same advantages (though it is much harder to learn to shoot well). The Taurus may even be doable new at the $250-300 range new.
-Taurus Milennium series. Well under $400 (usually under $350), reliable, accurate, and in good defensive calibers (9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP).
-Ruger P-series. Not so concealable, but the polymer are doable. Decent prices. Extremely durable and reliable.
-Taurus PT911 or PT940. Decent prices, fairly concealable, reliable, full-size gun capacities (15 in 9mm, 10 in .40).
-CZ. The 75B is concealable for some people. The Compact is for most. The polymer 100B is concealable for most. Prices are still reasonable, but going up.
-Bersa .380. Very concealable, reliable, pretty accurate, quite affordable (still under $250 new in most locations).
Reloading gear:
-Get a cheap Lee press and basic kit and you can make ammo for far less than you would have to pay to buy it. If you are poor this is a must have, it will pay for itself in only a few range sessions.
Pick one of these options from each catagory as funds allow (start with the concealable handgun if in a carry state, start with the long gun if not), then when/if funds allow more pick up a second from each for more versatility:
Long guns:
-12 ga pump shotgun. Yes, recoil can be brutal, especially to a non-shooter. However, they are great HD guns, and versatile in a "SHTF" situation (whether Katrina-like where you need a good HD gun, or total collapse where hunting for food as well as defense is needed). In addition to being one of the best HD guns, if you are a hunter (or if the SHTF in a total societal collapse) you can hunt everything from the smallest birds to the largest game with simple changes in your ammo selection. New you can still get a good Mossy or Rem for the $200-250 range, and used you can be under $200.
-SKS. Cheap, cheap ammo, more range than the shotgun, and still good for hunting deer sized game.
-Hi-Point Carbine. I had one that was a very reliable gun. Even though 9mm and .40S&W don't improve much with a carbine length barrel, you still have practical accuracy advantages over a handgun. Ammo is cheap and you can carry a lot of it if you need to. They are still under $200 new.
-30-30 lever gun. Can be topped off between shots, can be fired very quickly, decent power. A bit much for home defense in a populated area, but if you are in the country they are usable for HD and they are great for hunting deer sized game. Can still be found in the $250-300 range new, and great deals are available used.
-.357mag or .44mag lever gun. Most of the advantages of the 30-30 lever, you can carry more ammo and ammo is much cheaper, it is more suitable for home defense in a suburban or urban environment. The only disadvantage v. a 30-30 is cost (used you may find one around $300 or a tad less).
-.22lr semi-auto. Sure, it isn't the best defensive gun, but in a long gun it is acceptable. Cheap ammo means cheap practice (if you are poor ammo cost may mean more to you than the cost of the gun) which means more practice.
-.22mag semi-auto. Still cheaper than just about any centerfire and more "oomph" than a .22lr.
Concealable handguns:
-A used 3-4" barrelled K-frame .38 or .357. An OK size for carry, simple to use, reliable, accurate, and very versatile (especially the .357mag). .38spl practice ammo is relatively inexpensive, and both calibers are extremely easy to learn to reload for to save even more money. You can find the .38s in the $200 range used, $300 for a new Taurus 82. You can find the .357s starting in the $250 range used, $300-350 new for the Taurus 65.
-A used 2" S&W J-frame or Taurus 85. Much more concealable than the K-frame, most of the same advantages (though it is much harder to learn to shoot well). The Taurus may even be doable new at the $250-300 range new.
-Taurus Milennium series. Well under $400 (usually under $350), reliable, accurate, and in good defensive calibers (9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP).
-Ruger P-series. Not so concealable, but the polymer are doable. Decent prices. Extremely durable and reliable.
-Taurus PT911 or PT940. Decent prices, fairly concealable, reliable, full-size gun capacities (15 in 9mm, 10 in .40).
-CZ. The 75B is concealable for some people. The Compact is for most. The polymer 100B is concealable for most. Prices are still reasonable, but going up.
-Bersa .380. Very concealable, reliable, pretty accurate, quite affordable (still under $250 new in most locations).
Reloading gear:
-Get a cheap Lee press and basic kit and you can make ammo for far less than you would have to pay to buy it. If you are poor this is a must have, it will pay for itself in only a few range sessions.
chaim
Member
Out of my guns, I could put together an under $600 list that can cover all bases:
-SKS, bought around $200. Good "homeland defense gun" to defend the homestead (though care needs to be taken with 7.62 ammo in the burbs) or get food if needed.
-Taurus 85CH. Bought used at $200. Good concealable gun
-Marlin 60. Bought new for $100. Great fun gun, cheap practice, could be used for HD with good ammo selection (though .22lr is lacking) and could be used for food if the situation warranted it.
-Reloading gear for .38 and .357 bought at under $100. Makes ammo for the Taurus quite cheap.
If ever forced to bug out from my home, here is what I'd likely actually take (under $1500, put together over a period of time, not all at once):
One of the following four depending upon my mood and current ammo stock (two if space allowed):
-SKS. Bought for $200.
-Benelli Nova 12ga w/ 18.5" barrel, ghost ring sights, 5 round capacity (4+1), 5 rounds held in a cuff over the buttstock, and 25 rounds in a cartridge belt. Very versatile home defense/camp defense setup. The gun was around $350 or so (don't remember for sure) and the nylon ammo carriers were another $20. If I was to do it again I'd probably pay around $230 and get the Mossberg 500 Persuader (the only disadvantage is a bead instead of the ghost rings).
-Winchester 94 in 30-30. Paid around $220 a few years back
-Winchester 94AE in .45LC. I don't remember if I paid around $300 or around $400.
One of the following two depending upon mood and space:
-Ruger MkII .22lr pistol. Paid a bit over $200
-Marlin 60 .22lr rifle. I'm more likely to take this one- more practical range on the rifle, and it is my first gun. Paid $100.
One of the following 3:
-Taurus PT140 Milennium Pro. It is always loaded for HD so it wouldn't take much to grab it. Very accurate and reliable. Concealable. Bought new for $324.
-CZ 75B. Good gun, but most of my stored 9mm is FMJ and I'm not sure I trust 9mm FMJ for defense. Paid around $400 a few years back.
-Ruger KP345. This one will depend on whether it proves reliable or not (I suspect it will), but the MD required waiting period isn't up so I haven't even picked it up yet. A full-size gun would be nice (I'll have a concealable one listed below), if I'll mostly have FMJ I'd prefer a .40 or .45, Ruger has a rep for being nearly indestructable. Paid $464.
Definate:
-Taurus 85CH. Paid $200 used a few years ago.
So, that comes to $824 if I go with the cheapest options, and no doubles in a catagory, and up to $1264 without a duplicate, and with those four guns most every need is covered. Even with a good deal of ammo I can be under $1500.
-SKS, bought around $200. Good "homeland defense gun" to defend the homestead (though care needs to be taken with 7.62 ammo in the burbs) or get food if needed.
-Taurus 85CH. Bought used at $200. Good concealable gun
-Marlin 60. Bought new for $100. Great fun gun, cheap practice, could be used for HD with good ammo selection (though .22lr is lacking) and could be used for food if the situation warranted it.
-Reloading gear for .38 and .357 bought at under $100. Makes ammo for the Taurus quite cheap.
If ever forced to bug out from my home, here is what I'd likely actually take (under $1500, put together over a period of time, not all at once):
One of the following four depending upon my mood and current ammo stock (two if space allowed):
-SKS. Bought for $200.
-Benelli Nova 12ga w/ 18.5" barrel, ghost ring sights, 5 round capacity (4+1), 5 rounds held in a cuff over the buttstock, and 25 rounds in a cartridge belt. Very versatile home defense/camp defense setup. The gun was around $350 or so (don't remember for sure) and the nylon ammo carriers were another $20. If I was to do it again I'd probably pay around $230 and get the Mossberg 500 Persuader (the only disadvantage is a bead instead of the ghost rings).
-Winchester 94 in 30-30. Paid around $220 a few years back
-Winchester 94AE in .45LC. I don't remember if I paid around $300 or around $400.
One of the following two depending upon mood and space:
-Ruger MkII .22lr pistol. Paid a bit over $200
-Marlin 60 .22lr rifle. I'm more likely to take this one- more practical range on the rifle, and it is my first gun. Paid $100.
One of the following 3:
-Taurus PT140 Milennium Pro. It is always loaded for HD so it wouldn't take much to grab it. Very accurate and reliable. Concealable. Bought new for $324.
-CZ 75B. Good gun, but most of my stored 9mm is FMJ and I'm not sure I trust 9mm FMJ for defense. Paid around $400 a few years back.
-Ruger KP345. This one will depend on whether it proves reliable or not (I suspect it will), but the MD required waiting period isn't up so I haven't even picked it up yet. A full-size gun would be nice (I'll have a concealable one listed below), if I'll mostly have FMJ I'd prefer a .40 or .45, Ruger has a rep for being nearly indestructable. Paid $464.
Definate:
-Taurus 85CH. Paid $200 used a few years ago.
So, that comes to $824 if I go with the cheapest options, and no doubles in a catagory, and up to $1264 without a duplicate, and with those four guns most every need is covered. Even with a good deal of ammo I can be under $1500.
Good used .357 revolver and a nice lever action rifle in the same caliber!
Any extra cash equals a .22 rifle and a good pump .12 Gauge shotgun.
Could then handle any problems!
And avoid any harsh glare about evil auto rifles in any of the 50 states!
Any extra cash equals a .22 rifle and a good pump .12 Gauge shotgun.
Could then handle any problems!
And avoid any harsh glare about evil auto rifles in any of the 50 states!
Rampant_Colt
Member
SKS is by far the best auto rifle bargain going $150-250. *but*
you MUST have a supply of ammunition. $125-150 ~ 1000rds.
Mosin Nagant 7.62X54R $75-150
corrosive ammo?
for around $10-13 you can buy a 500rd. brick of .22LRs
Marlin model 60. $100
Maverick 12ga. shotgun w/28" choke tube and 18.5" riot barrel. $200
H&R - NEF 12ga. $75-100
25rd. Low Recoil 00 buckshot/slugs $15
25rd. birdshot $5
handgun?
.357 mag for revolver. . used Colt, S&W, Ruger...
9mm for auto
Glock 17 with a Ciener .22 conversion kit.
you MUST have a supply of ammunition. $125-150 ~ 1000rds.
Mosin Nagant 7.62X54R $75-150
corrosive ammo?
for around $10-13 you can buy a 500rd. brick of .22LRs
Marlin model 60. $100
Maverick 12ga. shotgun w/28" choke tube and 18.5" riot barrel. $200
H&R - NEF 12ga. $75-100
25rd. Low Recoil 00 buckshot/slugs $15
25rd. birdshot $5
handgun?
.357 mag for revolver. . used Colt, S&W, Ruger...
9mm for auto
Glock 17 with a Ciener .22 conversion kit.
glockamolee
Member
Based upon the budget concerns, one needs to find something that can be reasonable out to 200yards, multiple attackers, convenience, and the ablilty to forage game (food).
1) SKS AS IS (no aftermarket magazines). leave it in its 10 shot configuration. You can pick one up for about 80-150, depending on its condition.
2) A used .357 revolver. One can pick up a stainless smith or ruger for around 200.
500 rounds for the SKS (MORE than enough. If you use up all the ammo, then you are living in a societal change which means you will have picked up an M4 or other military weapon off the battlefield).
200 rounds for the .357; 125 hollopoint for defense, .38 LRN for small game, 158 grain .357 for deer size game.
1) SKS AS IS (no aftermarket magazines). leave it in its 10 shot configuration. You can pick one up for about 80-150, depending on its condition.
2) A used .357 revolver. One can pick up a stainless smith or ruger for around 200.
500 rounds for the SKS (MORE than enough. If you use up all the ammo, then you are living in a societal change which means you will have picked up an M4 or other military weapon off the battlefield).
200 rounds for the .357; 125 hollopoint for defense, .38 LRN for small game, 158 grain .357 for deer size game.
Lonestar.45
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SKS - $150
Mossberg Maverick 12 gauge (6rd, 18.5" barrel) - $140
Rossi .38 Special 2" barrel - $200
Total = $490
If you're really low on funds, skip the SKS and Rossi and pick up the 12 guage. I would feel comfortably armed in a NOLA type situation in my home with just the shotgun. The revolver and SKS just expand capability.
Mossberg Maverick 12 gauge (6rd, 18.5" barrel) - $140
Rossi .38 Special 2" barrel - $200
Total = $490
If you're really low on funds, skip the SKS and Rossi and pick up the 12 guage. I would feel comfortably armed in a NOLA type situation in my home with just the shotgun. The revolver and SKS just expand capability.
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