What is the difference between 9mm winchester white box defense ammo?

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9mmhpfan

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I don't reload so I buy my practice ammo at Wal-Mart and I noticed that they also sell "White Box" Defense Ammo too.

My question is: What is the difference in the hollowpoint round in the bargin priced white box and that in the expensive silvertip round. I am curious to find out what the difference is?

I see all of these super expensive hollowpoint rounds for $15.00 for twenty rounds. I am sure they are well built and deliver awesome performance but is their performance that much better than the Winchester white box defense ammo.

Any information you can give will be most appericated.
 
The two things I noticed with the WWB is the extractor lip on the casing isn't as 'sharp' as on more expensive ammo that I have. I also understand they're not +P and usually run higher in the bullet weight range.
 
I would actually like some data as well if available. I shoot a lot of it because it seems to be quite accurate in my handguns. Primarily the 147 grain load. Though I have shot a little of the 115 grain variety. So, I know I can hit well with it..but how well it performs..is something I would like to know as well. Of course I don't expect it to be as good as +P or +P+ top of the line premium level performance...but I would LIKE to THINK-->(yes, that is very bad) that it performs at least OK.
 
uh... if your (or a loved one's) life is on the line (after all, that's when one will use the defense round), exactally what is OK performance? And is OK performance acceptable?

Of all the HP rounds out there, I'm willing to believe that most penetrate reasonably well, and will expand (usually). On the other hand, the test results I've seen (Ammo Lab before they started charging) showed me rounds that WILL penetrate well (13 in. in gel) and WILL expand well (out to about .68 in. if memory serves me correctly)

That said, I STILL have to do my part... hit the target.
 
OK...meaning will penetrate enough with reliable expansion. I am sure that it is a better defensive choice than FMJ...like I carried while in the military before retiring from same. I would expect more premium ammo will penetrate futher and have better if not larger expansion. The question (and the use of the word OK) is if there is some independant testing data available to tell us that it penetrates far enough, expand reliably, and expand large enough...to meet some form of established criteria that is a good accepted measure (for example: 13 inches with an expansion of .68 per..I don't know...maybe some FBI recommendation....perhaps).

Why would this matter if it is already established that the premium ammo such as Gold Dots, Silver Tips, Hyrdroshock, etc...does meet this criteria (and you should therefore spend the money and load your carry mags with these premium choices)? Well: (a) I would like to know just how much of a difference there actually is...just because. (b) It can be very expensive to practice exclusively with premium (priced) ammo. Point of impact can be different as well as it can change the handling charactistics of firearm. Whereas if this does meet established acceptable criteria people on a budget can practice with their carry ammo more cost effetively..increasing the chance of placing solid hits on target. (c) It can be very expensive to cache premium defensive ammo but WWB HP is very cost effective. I like to buy it in 500 round orders from midwayusa. (d) etc.

Hope that clarifies my question(s) a little. :)
 
If you hit an attacker 3 or 4 times in the head it doesn't matter what 9mm ammo you're using. If you can't do that, practice until you can. Don't depend on expensive ammo to compensate for your lack of skill.
 
... Don't depend on expensive ammo to compensate for your lack of skill.
Click to expand...

Good point!


I don't remember seeing any stats on the "non premium" HP ammo such as the white box. The stats I saw on the Ranger (doesn't that name SOUND dangerous <grin>) showed 13 inches of penetration in gel. That is indeed within the recommendation by the FBI (12 - 18 inches). I don't remember that the FBI set any recommended amount of expansion. However, if the round doesn't expand it has the increased chance of over penetration.

The "Ranger" is a heavier bullet than average (147 gr) at subsonic velocities (about 990 fps). The big "thing" about them is that the copper cladding is designed to peal back forming "petals" thereby a) increasing ever so slightly the diameter, and b) as the petals are "sharp" they cause more tissue damage. Is any of that true? Who knows. As one person put it to me (this was at the range so you MUST take it as gosple <grin>) if any other bullet passes within .05 inches of a major atery and doesn't cut it, this bullet might. Is it worth the extra money? Your choice. I suspect that any other quality 147 gr HP bullet would perform in a like manner (without those deadly petals).

Interestingly, when this bullet first came out it was of course touted to the LEO community (known as "Black Talons". It was kept out of the public hands (mostly) because they were "cop killers". If you used them and had to go to trial it was brought up that you had "cop killers" loaded and it was more difficult to win.

Now, with all of the above said. Take EVERYTHING I've typed with at least a grain of salt. This is all a) from memory, b) from research I did some 8 months ago when I decided get serious about owning a handgun, and c) most of the research was done on the net. Since I know the perils of information on the net I tried to cross check as much as possible but there is still that element of doubt as well as the element of doubt as to the accuracy of my memory.

Just my $.02 (actually I suppose it is up to $.05 now)
 
Ammo performance

While I agree that dropping a little cash now and again for peace of mind is perfectly acceptable, I think we over scrutinize our choices. With any modern handgun of reasonable power (.380 minimum) we are already ahead of the curve of what several generations of gangsters, hit-men, cavalry soldiers and folks who just wanted to be left alone had to choose from. I do carry a .45acp with 200gr +p jhp's, but wouldn't feel undergunned with fmj, either. If something about the WWB gives you warm and fuzzies, use it. It may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it will work and very likely work just fine.
 
I doubt a BG will file a grievance if you shoot him with something other than "premium" ammo.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, you might be wrong. Let's assume that white box regular has less killing power and you wound the BG. Uh oh, here comes his lawyer... :neener:
 
I'm curious about this as well. I use the WWB 230gr JHPs for carry in all my .45s. They feed perfectly, they're just as accurate as anything I've tried, and expansion in wood was excellent.

Of course, that's in .45, where expansion isn't too necessary. Plus, $.37/round (vs. $1.04/round for Gold Dots) is a great price for defensive ammo that I use frequently at the range.

I've considered starting a "battle of the bargain 9mm hollowpoints" thread, because I'm curious about a few of these rounds. For my nines, I generally stick with 124gr Gold Dots, but I wonder how well the WWB do, as well as the Remington UMC (L9mm1b).
 
I have had people I trust tell me that some of the WWB ammo is not high quality, and that malfunctions are much more frequent that with the higher grade ammo. I have seen a couple of WWB .45's with well dented primers that did not go off, so the stories are at least partly true. I have the feeling that if ammo type X has the same case, bullet, and powder as type Y, and X is cheaper, corners are being cut somewhere, and quality control is often the point that suffers when corners are cut.

IMHO, if you want to use the cheaper stuff for practice, fine. But for serious purposes, the best is none too good. And don't make the mistake of "saving the good stuff" for carry but never actually firing it to see if it works in your gun. Some will criticize me from both directions, but I would advise not carrying any gun/mag/ammo, unless you have fired at least 200 consecutive rounds out of the carry gun without failure, using the carry ammunition and the carry magazine. If you carry spare magazines, that is 200 from each.

I completely agree with those who point out that hitting is much more important than the bullet or those pretty expansion pictures in the gun magazines. Expansion really means very little in terms of immediate lethality, where the location of the shot means nearly everything.

And, reliability of the gun/ammo is paramount; defending oneself is a tad more difficult with a jammed gun.

Jim
 
I've used the WWB target ammo (9mm & .38 Special) almost exclusively for about 2-1/2 to 3 years, without a single failure or problem. I shoot about 200 rounds of the WWB almost every week. That comes out to around 20K to 30K rounds without a problem.

As for the WWB "Personal Protection" JHP ammo, I've shot about 1000 rounds of it without any failure.

I feel pretty comfortable with that level of reliability, YMMV.



nero
 
Actually, unless you've got a flashlight hanging off the end of the barrel, nobody will know how tackyticool you are anyway. :p
 
Thanks for the link. The other links that I found as a result of that link were also quite helpful.
 
One of our larger local PDs issued WWB 9mm JHPs for a long time with no problems to report. They only moved on because someone made them a better deal. I like it because the rounds are relatively long, aiding feeding in my P18.9.

GR
 
I almost always carry premium ammo, but that usually amounts to less than 100 rounds on hand of that stuff per calibre...

I supplement my HP supply by purchasing cheaper "value" HPs that come in larger quantities like 50 or 100 round boxes...

That ammo is there in case of a SHTF scenario... of course the ball will work too but I'd rather be firing some sort of HP in defense...
 
I have shot quite a bit of the WWB 9mm without any problems. Thanks for the link.
 
"I don't have a chance. I've got WWB 147 gr HP "Self Defense" ammo in my C-9, Hi-Point, on my nightstand. "

I know this is an old thread, but I just read it and others may in the future. I have two C-9s. Neither of them feed reliably with WWB 124s or 147s. They bury their nose into the feed ramp almost every time even after polishing. I haven't bothered with other brands of 124s and 147s but I suspect the issue would be the same.
 
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