Simple Shooter
Member
Am I behind the learning curve or is this new? USA9JHP (aka Winchester White Box) now labeled as Winchester Defense in a black box.
Winchester White Box 9mm in a... Black Box?
- Thread starter Simple Shooter
- Start date
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I guess they are using the new packaging to distinguish the hollow point/ defense line from the fmj range stuff?
Its WBB now, lol.
Itll take a lot more than a new box to get me to buy Winchester ammo ever again.
Its WBB now, lol.
Itll take a lot more than a new box to get me to buy Winchester ammo ever again.
OP
OP
Simple Shooter
Member
You got my attention here. I have not had any issues with this specific ammo. What has your experience been?
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Now, granted I got turned off on Winchester centerfire ammo back in the 90s when they first introduced Winclean powder. That stuff produced great clouds of foul-smelling smoke and left my guns filthy. It also seemed weak- recoil was noticably lighter than similiar ammo from other brands. The only good thing I can say was it did go bang. I dont know of they still use that powder, but Ive always shunned WWB centerfire since.
Their .22 rimfire ammo doesn't impress me either. Ive bought recent bricks and experienced more than usual misfires and unremarkable accuracy. Additionally, it wont even chamber in several of my match chambers and some others experience difficult extraction after firing. The same gun will digest Eley or CCi just fine.
If there is any choice at all (and there usually is), I wont buy Winchester ammo again.
OP
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Simple Shooter
Member
Haven’t experienced the same issue with the center fire, but definitely agree on the .22LR. Never venturing away from CCI on the rimfire again.
I have a 9mm Colt Combat Elite Defender that eats any 124 or 147 grain round but dislikes most 115. I don’t know why that is, but it will run WWB 115 grain all day long. Go figure.
Wish they had gone to an orange box. Just because WOB sounds funnier.
I have a 9mm Colt Combat Elite Defender that eats any 124 or 147 grain round but dislikes most 115. I don’t know why that is, but it will run WWB 115 grain all day long. Go figure.
Wish they had gone to an orange box. Just because WOB sounds funnier.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
The most important thing I want to know is price.
When I used to travel to teach classes, it was easier to buy WWB at the LGS than to pack it. Whenever we didn't shoot during the class, we just left with the class host.
That changed when Blazer 9mm became more commonly available. Blazer was cleaner and didn't have as many underloaded/weak rounds as WWB...it didn't hurt that it was usually <$10/box of 50. Blazer became my default bulk/practice ammo until I started reloading
Alllen Bundy
Member
How did you know that the rounds were weak? Could you feel it, or did you have malfunctions, or were you measuring the bullet velocity?
I had been using 9 mm, 115 gr FMJ WWB for practice, as it's advertised muzzle velocity was 1,190 fps, which is close to Sig's advertised 1,185 fps muzzle velocity of their Elite Performance JHP which had been carrying. I've fired 238 rds of WWB and haven't noticed any problems so far. But I have not measured it's muzzle velocity so I have no idea of how non-uniform it may be.
Failure to cycle the slide, weak recoil, and weak ejection...I could certainly "feel" the difference between rounds during a 500 round class
OP
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Simple Shooter
Member
I cannot speak to price as I haven’t bought any of the WWB I have used. It has all been given to me by a couple friends I have been instructing. I don’t charge them so they usually give me a few boxes as a thank you.
it is dirtier than my reloads (I use Bullseye) but not enough to make a difference. I clean after every range session anyway.
As for power difference between rounds, I have had a few that felt different but thought it was just me.
it is dirtier than my reloads (I use Bullseye) but not enough to make a difference. I clean after every range session anyway.
As for power difference between rounds, I have had a few that felt different but thought it was just me.
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Simple Shooter
Member
Due to career and family obligations, I am finding I have time to reload or shoot but not both. So, I have been looking to buy cases on line for the time being and the Blazer seems like a good deal. Any issues I should know about?
CajunBass
Member
I used to shoot a lot of WWB ammo that I bought from Wal-Mart. Never saw a problem with it. These days I seldom get to a Wal-Mart store so I got no idea if they still sell it or not. I suspect not. I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else. I reload 9mm but still pick up Blazer Brass from time to time. Federal American Eagle too, especially during the great primer vanishing act.
I might have to keep an eye out for that black box stuff. I get PMC HP 9mm from time to time just because it comes in a 50 round box for about $25.00 if IIRC. A little less the last time.
I might have to keep an eye out for that black box stuff. I get PMC HP 9mm from time to time just because it comes in a 50 round box for about $25.00 if IIRC. A little less the last time.
None that I've run into.
If you're not going to reload, I'd save a bit and get aluminum cased blazer
dweis
Member
Really never bought ammo based upon the color of the box. So who cares?
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Nope, Ive had excellent results with both the aluminum and brass Blazer. Of course, you cant reload the aluminum cases.
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NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Walmart stopped selling all ammo they defined as primarily "handgun" or "tactical" ammunition under pressure from antigun activist shareholders several years ago.
They still sell Winchester "hunting rifle" and shotgun ammo.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
We care if the stuff in the black box is any better than the crap in the white box.
I kinda doubt it......but Id be interested if anyone wants to try it and review.
OP
OP
Simple Shooter
Member
I don’t think this is about buying ammo based on the color of the box. It is about NOT buying ammo based on the color of the box.
Guaranteed, Winchester watches these forums for their name to pop up. (Hi, guys!) They see WWB had a reputation as something for the range but definitely not carry. So why not put the JHP product in a black box and rename it? How many folks are going to read the p/n USA9JHP on the end and realize it is still the same product they have sold in the white box for years?
CajunBass
Member
I remember I bought some WWB, 147 grain hollow points at some point, many years ago. I didn't notice it wasn't the standard old 115 RN WWB I was used to getting until later. I didn't even know there was such a thing as WWB HP's. It shot fine. A lot of people say WWB is dirty, but I never really noticed that. I usually cleaned my guns when getting home anyway, so maybe it was. WWB and Remington/UMC (in the green/white box) were my go go to ammo, back in the day.
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Simple Shooter
Member
WWB and Remington/UMC (in the green/white box) were my go go to ammo, back in the day.
Paul Harrell has evaluated both in his videos and even states he carries Remington green and white box 9mm in his Beretta 92F.
Rock185
Member
I've had a good luck with most major US manufacturer ammo, as well as GECO, PMC, etc. Some years ago, standard pressure 9mm Remington ball ammo pierced primers in more than one pistol. I quit using Remington loss leader type 9mm ammo, or their #1 1/2 primers, but other Remington loads have been just fine. I did have one bad round of Winchester white box 115 grain ball a few years ago. But I've shot many thousands of rounds of the WWB with no issues, so I can't complain too much.
halfmoonclip
Member
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- Feb 4, 2011
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WWB was available at WalMart, 100 rounds @ $13-something. Couldn't load it that cheap, so I bought a box every time I went shopping...it also stocked me with a lifetime supply of brass.
Still have a bit of it left, and I was shooting it through the P365, which was always a mellow shooter with my standard 1100'sec reloads. It seemed surprisingly harsh with the WWB, which does clock another 70'sec faster.
It was just enough to be a buzz kill, especially since Blazer Brass/my handloads/P365 HPs all run at that 1100'sec.
Anyway, Blazer Brass has proven itself reliable and good shooting, and I keep buying it while the primer drought endures.
No more WWB.
Moon
Still have a bit of it left, and I was shooting it through the P365, which was always a mellow shooter with my standard 1100'sec reloads. It seemed surprisingly harsh with the WWB, which does clock another 70'sec faster.
It was just enough to be a buzz kill, especially since Blazer Brass/my handloads/P365 HPs all run at that 1100'sec.
Anyway, Blazer Brass has proven itself reliable and good shooting, and I keep buying it while the primer drought endures.
No more WWB.
Moon
Riomouse911
Member
Some ranges won’t let you shoot steel or aluminum ammo because they sell the brass, like the one I shoot at. It’s good ammo, so that’s about the only negative thing I have heard about Blazer.
I have, literally, purchased SUV loads of WWB 9mm, .40, .45 and 5.56 annually for my former office. Spending $25,000.00 (government price) at a time was the norm, one year I spent over $40K.
There was one year (2016 maybe?) where we got a really bad lot of WWB 115 fmj. We ran into random cartridges with the flash hole incomplete so the primer pocket was solid. When the primer fired, it smashed back under pressure and got formed into the firing pin hole, completely locking the gun up ( In our case Glocks). The only way we found to undo this was to drop the mag and “punch” the gun forward so the front edge of the slide hit against a 4x4 post. This would force the slide back, popping the spent primer out of the cartridge case and freeing up the gun to cycle. (The wood post was softer than the steel slides. We chipped the posts but never damaged a gun.
) After about 3 of these I set the whole lot back and got replacement ammo. In this case it was about 15,000 rounds worth (30 cases) I took back.
After this, I went to 124 gr fmj for the office in Mp5’s and Glocks. Never had an issue with that ammo.
I still have and shoot WWB, primarily 124 gr but I still have lots of 115 that I bought when I was plate-shooting. I can’t really say that it is any better or worse than the Blazer Brass, Fiocchi or other random 9mm 115 fmj that I have fired in my myriad of semi autos; from a Micro 9/Glock 43 up to a Glock 17L/CZ Shadow 2.
Now the Winchester rimfire or 12 ga Wal Mart packs? Those are less reliable and consistent than WWB 9mm in my book. Just yesterday I had a FTF with .22 WMR in my Ruger American.
Stay safe.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Jeez, really? They charge you to shoot there and want to nickel and dime the customers for the brass money? I know you may not have much choice in the People's Republik, but I wouldn't shoot there. It's not like they cant sell the steel and aluminum too. Sounds like they are just too lazy to sort it.....SMH.
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