Here's a hint for shooting while walking/moving.
Look at how you walk backwards, that is the same motion you should use when moving forward
Look at how you walk backwards, that is the same motion you should use when moving forward
What Is The Weak Element In Your Gun Handling Skill Set?
- Thread starter *Kemosabe*
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as essential to surviving a deadly encounter or winning a completion:
1. Work from a holster
2. Shoot while moving
3. Shoot multiple targets (and shoot them while moving)
4. Shoot from concealment
5. Shoot at targets that partially concealed
6. Low-light shooting
7. Shooting a threat multiple times rapidly
8. Reloading
"as essential to surviving a deadly encounter or winning a completion": using your brain and training to keep from a deadly encounter.
In a crisis, you will not rise to the occasion, but merely default to your level of training.
1. Work from a holster
2. Shoot while moving
3. Shoot multiple targets (and shoot them while moving)
4. Shoot from concealment
5. Shoot at targets that partially concealed
6. Low-light shooting
7. Shooting a threat multiple times rapidly
8. Reloading
"as essential to surviving a deadly encounter or winning a completion": using your brain and training to keep from a deadly encounter.
In a crisis, you will not rise to the occasion, but merely default to your level of training.
TanklessPro
Member
The weak element in my gun handling skills......
I'm perfect by no means,but the biggest problem I have is putting a gun down. Seems every time I pick one up, it wants to go home with me?
I'm perfect by no means,but the biggest problem I have is putting a gun down. Seems every time I pick one up, it wants to go home with me?
Honestly, my biggest weakness when it comes to an actual gunfight would be: to practice everything on that list a lot more under high stress Force-on Force training.
Getting the skills down on a square range is just the first step. Then repetition to get those skills into unconscious competence, then stress innoculate them with FoF so you can do it under high stress and adrenaline dump.
That is why we see such a high discrepancy between LE qualification hit rates and percentages vs. street hit rates. The officers have the raw marksmanship and hand/eye coordination to make the shots, they just can't do it under life or death stress. So, once the fundamentals are down, keep cranking up the realism to simulate high stress. Easy to say, very hard to do.
Getting the skills down on a square range is just the first step. Then repetition to get those skills into unconscious competence, then stress innoculate them with FoF so you can do it under high stress and adrenaline dump.
That is why we see such a high discrepancy between LE qualification hit rates and percentages vs. street hit rates. The officers have the raw marksmanship and hand/eye coordination to make the shots, they just can't do it under life or death stress. So, once the fundamentals are down, keep cranking up the realism to simulate high stress. Easy to say, very hard to do.
Nom de Forum
Member
My biggest weakness is getting distracted playing with my guns instead of training for realistic situations with my SD weapons. My lifestyle in middle age requires far less concern and need, and has far less time and desire to train with SD weapons. I had far more of all in my youth. Now I spend more time doing other things, so I try to structure my training to be as focussed and time efficient as possible with a specific firing plan. I find that sprints of mentally focused and purposeful training shots works much better for me now than the marathons of my youth that consisted of as much playing as training. The weak element in my gun handling now is speed, as that does require a lot of time to develop and maintain.
sauer1911
Member
Reloading by far.
As I get better at reloading, I can keep up a wall of lead to protect myself and others.
be safe
As I get better at reloading, I can keep up a wall of lead to protect myself and others.
be safe
Break it down into the 4 separate motions and practice them individually before putting them together. That way any flub doesn't affect the whole processsauer1911 said:
revolver
is my weak area.
I don't own any so the opportunities are few and far between.
When the opportunity comes up I love using them, love their 'clockwork' mechanical perfection. Other than that I am fairly well rounded and play a few of the games.
is my weak area.
I don't own any so the opportunities are few and far between.
When the opportunity comes up I love using them, love their 'clockwork' mechanical perfection. Other than that I am fairly well rounded and play a few of the games.
Yup, same principals as drawing. Break it down in to the component parts and work on each individually.
Doing this with drawing is important as you have 3 firing positions out of the gate which are relevant for different distances.
point 2 - hip level - keep your off hand free to act as a blocade while you shoot from the hip - useful in contact distance situations or when attacker is 1 step away
point 3 - retention - both hands holding gun but close in - useful if the aggressor is within a couple of fast steps; don't wan't to extend the gun and "give" it to them. An attacker can close a couple of steps (3-5 yards) VERY fast and sidestep while doing so, then contest the gun. If it's close in, it's harder for them to do, and you can still hit reliably to 5 yards from this hold
point 4 - full extension; if the attacker is out of your "reaction time" window, and can't close the distance before you can tell your brain to tell your trigger finger to shoot.
hardluk1
member
Bad knees and eyes that don't transfer from sights to target well. More commonly know as bad eye sight ! ha
*Kemosabe*
Member
Great Tip!
I went to the range this morning and three other shooters and I were doing some improvised courses of fire… fun stuff!
When I asked about some tips on shooting while moving, one of the guys came up with this:
Tape a laser pointer on top of your gun (being absolutely sure it's unloaded) and go through the exercise and the pointer will “show” what works and what doesn’t.
When I got home I tried it and… WOW, what an eye opener. I’m in the process of applying some of the tips you guys provided to see what works for me.
I went to the range this morning and three other shooters and I were doing some improvised courses of fire… fun stuff!
When I asked about some tips on shooting while moving, one of the guys came up with this:
Tape a laser pointer on top of your gun (being absolutely sure it's unloaded) and go through the exercise and the pointer will “show” what works and what doesn’t.
When I got home I tried it and… WOW, what an eye opener. I’m in the process of applying some of the tips you guys provided to see what works for me.
HoosierQ
Member
1. eyesight. ABMD.
2. economics. can't afford to practice enough.
2. economics. can't afford to practice enough.
Hurryin' Hoosier
Member
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IMHO, most people - if and when they faced with an actual firefight - would be too busy p...ing down their leg to remember what the H... their "skill sets" were. (And that would include yours truly.)
Nom de Forum
Member
Yeah, all you have to do is look at some force on force videos to see people supposedly well trained in modern techniques frequently not demonstrating them.
*Kemosabe*
Member
Hurryin' Hoosier - "IMHO, most people - if and when they faced with an actual firefight - would be too busy p...ing down their leg to remember what the H... their "skill sets" were. (And that would include yours truly.)"
As I understand it, the purpose of developing skill sets is so that the skills become automatic. If you have to really think about what you are going to do, then you will most likely p__s down your leg and wind up in a pool of your own blood.
Those skill sets (not including shooting while moving) are what saved me as a LEO in three gun fights - in two of the three the other guy had the first shot at me. In each of those instances I was out in the open and cover was not an option. Instant action (add that to the list) employing skills that are essentially automatic became the difference between life and death for me.
I’ve broken a sweat every time after it finally sunk in that it could have been me going to the morgue. I would have no problem with anyone p__sing down their leg… after the fact.
As I understand it, the purpose of developing skill sets is so that the skills become automatic. If you have to really think about what you are going to do, then you will most likely p__s down your leg and wind up in a pool of your own blood.
Those skill sets (not including shooting while moving) are what saved me as a LEO in three gun fights - in two of the three the other guy had the first shot at me. In each of those instances I was out in the open and cover was not an option. Instant action (add that to the list) employing skills that are essentially automatic became the difference between life and death for me.
I’ve broken a sweat every time after it finally sunk in that it could have been me going to the morgue. I would have no problem with anyone p__sing down their leg… after the fact.
browningguy
Member
My skill set is being rapidly trumped by old age.
I disagree, respectfully.
Never been in a gun fight, but I've been in a couple of dangerous hand to hand fights. My training took over and I mentally took a back seat in each.
In one, I was attacked by a hockey player (a semi-professional, minor league). WAY out matched physically - but I walked away without a scratch while he went down hard. At the time I had 11 years of martial arts training behind me. Muscle memory took over. Things moved slow for me.
Unfortunately for me I also got my first and only conviction on that one - thought the person who grabbed my shoulder was another aggressor and punched him; turned out it was a cop breaking up the fight... (whoops). I went to jail over that (I got a few bruises too), but it was reduced down to a petty offense.
Situational awareness is tough to keep up on - I had no idea someone else was close enough to do anything - that cop grabbed my shoulder and I was clueless to his existence - totally focused on who was in front of me. Tunnel vision.
The second incident was a drunk/suicidal friend who attacked me with a knife. I wasn't expecting it. I reacted instinctively; he lost two teeth in my garage and I took the knife away. Again; no conscious thought whatsoever, or nerves. Just "sense threat BANG". At that point I'd been in martial arts for 22 years. The fight lasted all of .2 seconds. You could have blinked and missed the entire thing (my wife did, in fact, she was standing right there and never saw his knife clear leather until I'd picked it up off the ground after knocking him out.)
Anyway, I wouldn't lose any sleep sweating about "how will I react in a gun fight".
You'll react how you have TRAINED to react.
So relax, train good, and you will react good.
For the longest time, my only real "handicap" to shooting was (still is) weak eyesight, which is why I've almost exclusively concentrated my recreational shooting to handguns.
I have nothing at all against rifles (rather enjoy them, in fact), it's just that I must have optics to hit anyhting man-sized beyond 200 yards; a man-sized target blurs into unrecognizabilty through iron sights.
Lately, though, I'm feeling (in a bad way) handgun recoil more and more in my hands. Even polymer 9's are getting uncomfortable for a full box of bog-standard 115gr FMJ rounds at the range.
So all-in-all, #6 and #7 on the list are my weaknesses.
I have nothing at all against rifles (rather enjoy them, in fact), it's just that I must have optics to hit anyhting man-sized beyond 200 yards; a man-sized target blurs into unrecognizabilty through iron sights.
Lately, though, I'm feeling (in a bad way) handgun recoil more and more in my hands. Even polymer 9's are getting uncomfortable for a full box of bog-standard 115gr FMJ rounds at the range.
So all-in-all, #6 and #7 on the list are my weaknesses.
content
Member
Hello friends and neighbors ... Moving left and shooting right, is my personal worst, moving left and back ugh.
Any other rightys have tips I'm all ears!
Tried strong hand only(shots too wide)
Two hand hold (forces me to shuffle sideways ,,,,very slow)
Weak hand across body(my least fav. safety wise) but surprisingly fast and accurate.
Diving left with two hand hold (accurate for two shots but not too many soft spots out there for a 52 year old to land on.)
note...started using airsoft, bb then real guns...safety first!
Any other rightys have tips I'm all ears!
Tried strong hand only(shots too wide)
Two hand hold (forces me to shuffle sideways ,,,,very slow)
Weak hand across body(my least fav. safety wise) but surprisingly fast and accurate.
Diving left with two hand hold (accurate for two shots but not too many soft spots out there for a 52 year old to land on.)
note...started using airsoft, bb then real guns...safety first!
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There are three simple solutions, you have to decide which you're most comfortable with, that work for me.content said:
1. Strong hand only - If you're shooting wide, you are likely locking out your elbow and trying to muscle the gun in. Relax the elbow and cant the gun slightly counter clockwise.
2. Reverse Weaver - Leave the support hand in the Isosceles geometry, bring it across your body and lower/drop the strong hand elbow.
3. Weak Hand - Just reverse hands and shoot with the gun in your left hand. Can be just as accurate and fast as shooting strong hand...why do you find it less safe?
content
Member
TYVM for the tips #2 sounds most like me.
Safety...shooting across body....of course I could square more to the target as I will have to using #2.
Like something new to try.
Watched all vids linked good tips there too.
Main thing I picked up,, if cover is too far or you are too slow stand your ground and take out target ASAP....??Would going prone help in this case?
Safety...shooting across body....of course I could square more to the target as I will have to using #2.
Like something new to try.
Watched all vids linked good tips there too.
Main thing I picked up,, if cover is too far or you are too slow stand your ground and take out target ASAP....??Would going prone help in this case?
Depends on how quick you are, how confused they are, and how low you can get.
There is a technique to shoot targets that are low to the ground...and it takes much less skill than placing a good shot. Remember that on the ground, the shooter can walk their shots in on you
There is a technique to shoot targets that are low to the ground...and it takes much less skill than placing a good shot. Remember that on the ground, the shooter can walk their shots in on you
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