What kind of range (open sights deer hunting)

[altitude_19]

So I went BP hunting this past weekend. I had two clear shots at deer and missed both. I just got into BP and I'm still learning the platform (Traditions buckstalker with fiber optic sights, and 240 grain saboted jacketed hollowpoint on top of two pellets of T7 magnum powder).
The first shot was 150 yards and the second was 100. Both were easy shots for me with any modern rifle on iron sights. The rifle was sighted in the weekend prior and the sights haven't been damaged/tampered with since.
Bottom line: what kind of range do you like to wait for deer to get within before you take an open-sights shot?

 

[Alleph]

50 yards to 75 yards with open sights.
,

 

[45-70 Ranger]

Usually close enough where we can both have a cup of coffee together so I can find out if I like him or not, and then shoot 'em if he's got a bad attitude!

Just kidding.....with a .50 cal. sidelock using cast/patched round ball and BP, I will only take the shot IF I know I can place it right in the kill zone. That will keep me in the 75 to 100 yard range. Anything further is way too iffy for me and I simply will wait 'till they get closer, or pass on the shot all together.

You did not mention the range you were sighted in at, but even if using fiberoptic sights, you're still shooting open sights and should limit your range to where you can consistantly keep you shots within a 5" circle or less at your max point blank range. For me, that would be right at 100 to 110 yards. Your milage will vary as they say...

Hope that helps...

Wade

 

[huntsman247]

Here in WA state shots over 100 yds. are rare, at least in my neck of the woods. My longest shot to date was just at 100. .50 cal. RB in Kentucky style rifle. Nice four point, went about 70 yards into a draw and expired. Most however are right around 50 yds.; I like to keep things "close" myself.

 

[huntsman247]

Thought I would add too, a hit deer with BP very seldom reacts the same as hit with modern cartridges, none that I have seen anyway and I have been at BP for many years now. Are you sure you missed? Not trying to be a smarta... I know I have collected a couple deer that showed no sign, reaction, hair or blood in the immediate vicinity; followed along and lo and behold!! Of course I was positive that they were hit being close and all. Just my pennies worth.

 

[Alleph]

The One I shot 3 weeks ago was 62 yards.

 

[W.E.G.]

For any shot much more than 75 yards, I find the front sight to appear the size of the Washington Monument, while the deer looks like the Taco Bell chihuahua in comparison.

With iron sights, at 100+ yards, in the woods, lousy light, and with all sorts of obstructions, its just damn near impossible to get any sort of acceptable iron sight picture on a deer that isn't holding still, let alone standing broadside like the poster child for Field and Stream.

I used to miss most of my shots at deer when I hunted with iron sights. I switched to a Leupold 3x9, and haven't missed a shot since. By the time I can find the deer in that scope, he's as good as dead.

 

[altitude_19]

I just had to drop the cash on the rifle and don't have money for optics (much less the time to get it sighted in!). I think I'll just have to learn a bit of patience and wait for the sub-75 yard shot. Maybe later I can experiment with some lighter loads and see if I can get it shooting flatter than it is. I've been spoiled by the flat trajectory of my .223.

 

[arcticap]

Maybe there would be a benefit to using a rest of some kind, a monopod or shooting stick, a tree, or fire from the kneeling position....and/or use a sling for support.

 

[Beauhooligan]

I hunt Mule deer on a ridgeline that is covered in manzanita and madrone, and never have taken a shot beyond 75 yards, but that's been with everything from flintlock .45 to .30-06. Most times I hear deer long before getting a clean line of sight. Here's the lock of my Hatfield .45 Flinter...and yes, that is lead from a Lee ingot mold supporting my rifle.

 

[altitude_19]

Maybe there would be a benefit to using a rest of some kind, a monopod or shooting stick, a tree, or fire from the kneeling position....and/or use a sling for support.

I was using a rest (hay bale). That's why I was so baffled. The shot felt perfect, but I looked for hair, blood, etc and found nothing. I can make 3-5 inch groups at 100 yards with the muzzie at the range. There's no reason to think I wouldn't have had a better shot if I had waited. I'm going to the range sunday before hunting Monday. I'm betting I can get 2 inch groups at 75 yards or closer. Think I'll look for 75 yard markers when I get to the stand and wait for game to come within that range.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I hate to tell you this, but the deer at 100 yards wasn't a miss, and the one at 150 might have been, but based on your powder load, it too was probably a hit. I say this based on what you reportedly did at the range, and the fact you used a rest.

Your load is a pretty hot one even with a 250 grain bullet, and it is possible that you might have shot a bit low at 150 yards. The gross sights that you get often with fiber optics on an inline really leave room for some error in sight picture, but if you had practiced out to 100 yards, and were getting good groups, and you used a resting position when sighting and firing, you likely hit the deer right where it counted.

I have shot deer from 10 yards to 110 yards with my muzzleloader, and I have found that deer, even when hit with a soft lead .530 diameter projectile that goes through and through, taking out the lungs, can go 100 yards from where they are hit, and not bleed or leave hair for the first 60-80 yards. My most recent deer, two weeks ago, left only a tuft of hair, and went 80 yards before blood trail, and dropped about 20 yards beyond that. I have also seen deer drop where they were standing, or watched them go a short distance and watched them fall. It's unpredictable.

One thing that I have learned the hard way..., you must wait a full 30 minutes after taking your shot. If the deer went a short distance and piled up, you lose nothing, but if you reload and go a trackin' after about 10 minutes, and the deer isn't quite dead, the deer will see you long before you see it, and will bolt another 100 yards or so. It may do this so far from you you don't even hear it go. So the deer will have gone about 100 yards, leaving a blood trail for about the last forty, and you will spook it for another hundred. What you will find is a spot of blood, a blood trail, lots of blood, and then nuthin'.

The large amount of blood will be caused by the deer coughing, as it lies down, while the small trail leading up to that large amount will be from the wound or from blood dripping from the deer's mouth. But you may have to track the deer for 60-80 yards first, maybe a bit farther, before you find that first blood, and it may be pretty small.

Waiting 30 minutes gives the deer time when it first lays down to succumb to the trauma. It more than likely will expire in that time, and you only need to find it.

So give waiting a full 30 minutes a try. Mark your spot from where you shot when you leave to get the deer, so you can look back for a visual reference. Mark the spot where you think the deer was, again for a visual reference, and be prepared to go at least 100 yards from that second point before you expect to find the blood. You may have to slowly zig zag along the path you thought the deer took to find this trail, depending on the brush conditions, and don't forget to look under low piles of hedge etc for sometimes they will crawl up under that stuff to hide, and you won't see the white of the tail.

LD

 

[X-Rap]

In CO. we are not allowed optics on BP guns but I wouldn't hunt without a Williams peep on my rifle. Fiber Optics as already stated are not the best at distance and the time of day can also have an effect due to lighting.
Many other factors can cause a missed shot, buck fever, lack of practice, cold, misjudged distance, poor sight picture or you may have hit and didn't know.
My only suggestion is get closer so you can optimise your sights, practice, and maybe follow up on your shots better although I really suspect the shots were missed since the 100gr of 777 and that bullet should have given some physical results or smack even if hit in the gut unless you missed it in the smoke and recoil.
There is no magic pill, your gun is capable of a 150 yd shot. Have you done 150 in practice? I would not promote shooting at distances that you do not practice and prove to yourself, the trajectory of BP is hardly flat and that 50yds will make a difference.

 

[303tom]

From the blind to the tree line 100 yards on three sides North, South, & West, Road on East side, can`t shoot that way, so 100 yards 110 if they are in the trees, at 120 yds you can`t see em........

 

[sage5907]

altitude, let me make one point about muzzle loading rifles that you may not know. Many shooters go out to the range and sight in their rifles using a firm rest and they think they can really shoot their rifle. Then they go deer hunting only to miss the deer and wonder what happened. A muzzleloading rifle is not like a modern firearm in that it takes longer for a bullet to clear the barrel after the primer fires and you have to hold the rifle still and follow through with the shot until the bullet leaves the barrel. Just think of a muzzleloading rifle as a compound bow and hold the thing still when you shoot. BW

 

[303tom]

altitude, let me make one point about muzzle loading rifles that you may not know. Many shooters go out to the range and sight in their rifles using a firm rest and they think they can really shoot their rifle. Then they go deer hunting only to miss the deer and wonder what happened. A muzzleloading rifle is not like a modern firearm in that it takes longer for a bullet to clear the barrel after the primer fires and you have to hold the rifle still and follow through with the shot until the bullet leaves the barrel. Just think of a muzzleloading rifle as a compound bow and hold the thing still when you shoot. BW

That is some what true with flint & match lock, but not with the percussion & certainly not with the new in-lines........

 

[baylorattorney]

Mainly depends on your vision and steady hand. Really though there is no limit to range and open sights, as far as one can see and gun can shoot IMO. However, this is an acquired skill a shooter achieves after practice and discipline, or I've seen young children do it like it was second nature. Know your target and beyond.


Mark, esquire

 

[sage5907]

303tom, you have a lot more faith in a muzzleloading rifle than I do. I shoot a modern inline and have worked hard to learn the limits of my rifle. You're kidding yourself if you think those pellets lite up as fast as smokeless powder when the outside temperatures are at deer hunting levels. BW

 

[mykeal]

It's absolutely a fact that the pressure curve of smokeless powder rises and peaks much faster than black or substitute black powders. However, in terms of human reaction times the difference is a few milliseconds - essentially negligible; to say that the bullet is gone before we can react with smokeless powder, but not so for black powder is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

But, the importance of proper follow through is emphasized in any good training course for a good reason - we can and do anticipate the recoil, and concentrating on keeping the sight line after the shot helps reduce that tendency to 'pre-react'. It's certainly reasonable to conclude that lack of good follow through will have a greater effect on a gun using black powder than smokeless powder since the projectile is in the barrel longer.

A flintlock with poor lock timing will exacerbate the problem, certainly, but I find it difficult to see how an inline rifle would be better than a percussion rifle. I've seen no data showing significantly faster lock times with inlines versus sidelocks. And it's clear from Larry Pletcher's tests at Friendship a few years ago that a good quality, properly timed flintlock can produce lock times that compete with percussion rifles.

 

[303tom]

303tom, you have a lot more faith in a muzzleloading rifle than I do. I shoot a modern inline and have worked hard to learn the limits of my rifle. You're kidding yourself if you think those pellets lite up as fast as smokeless powder when the outside temperatures are at deer hunting levels. BW

O no, yes you are right about the pellets, but loose powder ignites as quickly as smokeless.

 

[J-Bar]

How high is your tree stand?

If you are shooting at a significant down angle, the bullet will go high.

Maybe sometime take a practice shot from your stand and see where the bullet hits.

One peek is worth 1000 guesses.

 

[Zeke/PA]

Using a built from kit T/C hawkin in .50 cal I have taken 14 deer.
All shots were from a 12 ft, high treestand and no shots were longer than 30 yards.
I shoot a 370 grain home cast Maxi- Ball over 90 grains of FFG.
From the bench, I shoot cloverleaf groups at 50 yards.
Someone mentioned deer reacting different from a Black Powder hit verses a modern rifle hit. Especially true when shooting a round ball.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thanks Zeke,

In fact the metal used in the round ball will cause different reactions. All lead will work different than wheel weight alloy, and linotype is very hard, and it works different too. The differences may or may not be as dramatic with a conical, but who knows.

Again, all other things being equal..., I think the thread author hit the deer at 100 yards, but as he is new to black powder hunting, & thought he had missed. This is not an uncommon situation.

LD

 

[Zeke/PA]

Dave,
Before my retirement I was fortunate enough to salvage a 100 lbs. or so hunk of sheet lead used at that time as a lab scale dampner.
Using the shop band saw, I cut the lead up into melting pot size chunks and all home cast balls and conicals are the result.
I save the wheel weights and unknown stuff for fishing lures.
Most of my kills dropped on the spot but one deer walked about 20 yards, crossed a small stream and fell backwards going up the opposite bank

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I, as with you, and with many others, have had many whitetails drop within sight, if not drop in their tracks with patched round ball. With my current .54 I have taken 10 deer in seven years, and in three cases, the deer went 100 yards. In two of those cases, the deer was dead, but just didn't know it, and all of the deer that I have taken, they have all been broadside, lung shots. In a third case, the deer was mortally wounded but the shot was high, and the buck went a good distance before laying down for good, partly because of my lack of waiting 30 minutes.

Of the three, two went a short distance, then left very tiny blood trails for a good distance until I was almost on top of them, and it took me a while to find them. The latest one, taken in November, left only a tuft of hair behind, and went 80 yards before leaving a massive blood trail and piling up 20 yards after that. The total distance from where I was to where she piled up was 130 yards.

All of my hits go through and through, whether at 10 out to 110 yards, so the load is doing the job. The shot placement is correct, at least in 9 of 10 times, so it's the deer that are different.

What I have found in addition to waiting a proper, 30 minutes, that by leaving a piece of orange where I can see it and so reference where I was when I shot, thus when I look back I get a reference point, and then marking where I think or know the deer was standing when hit..., I don't mess up my estimation of the distance that I have gone when looking for it.

LD