What makes a good hunting guide?

[H&Hhunter]

I was a registered guide in New Mexico. I tried my hand at guiding professionally and worked with a very long time outfitter. We specialized in Mt Lion and bear hunts but guided all of the other stuff New Mexico had to offer too. Since those days I've had the opportunity to do quite a bit of hunting and non "professional" guiding on my own and a bit of guided hunting too.

I'll say this right now, I for the most part dislike guided hunts in the USA. Which got me to thinking why is it that I can't stand most US hunting guides?

The answer lies in the fact that with rare exception guides in this country lack knowledge and professionalism. In the states that do require a guide to be registered or licensed the process to obtain said license is mainly bureaucratic with little or no skill or practical requirements. Alaska being a huge exception as they have a very stringent professional hunting guide training process.

A professional guide should have good knowledge of the area they are guiding in. They should have well maintained and excellent equipment. They should have good outdoor skills. They should have top quality optics and they should know how to use them. They should be in good physical condition.

A high quality guide should have ballistic and firearm knowledge. Same goes for the archery guide. They should always have a place for the client to check zero on their weapon upon arrival in camp. That place must have a solid rest and facilities to professionally verify zero. They should have the tools and ability to fix minor problems with the clients weapon. A loose screw or a canted scope can cause lots of problems in the field.

A good guide must have excellent trophy judging skills and knowledge of every species that they guide for. Once you learn the basic traits of each species, trophy judgment becomes fairly straight forward. Their are some very tricky species to judge, like bear and cats but that's why we have specialists guides in those species.

A guide should be patient and encouraging, never condescending, or judgmental. They should be complimentary and never belittle or insult their client or other guests in camp. There will come a time in every guides season when they need to be firm and lay down the law about something or another, but it can usually be done in a professional non hostile manner.

A quality guide should be calm and never pressure a client to shoot. If they flub a shot opportunity or miss a shot no matter how easy it would have been for you, the one and only reponse should be calm reassurance. The client is already feeling horrible about it, your job as a guide is to move the client past it and get them on to another shot opportunity.

Never I repeat NEVER start urging a client to SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT, HURRY UP, SHOOT! When that client is lining up for a shot. This is a huge rookie mistake that has caused more clients to miss and or wound game than can be imagined. A rushed, stress filled hunter is bound to mess up his shot. The urgency and stress in your voice has a lot of effect on the poor guy holding the rifle.

Finally don't ever shoot the clients animal! Unless it's a clear and present case of defense of life the guide has no business putting a bullet in a clients animal. Ever! That goes for you Alaska bear guides too! If I watch or hear about one more AK bear guide trying to "mirror" a hunters shot on a bear I'm going to scream! That is highly unprofessional and bordering on criminal.

 

[MCgunner]

The only experience with guided hunts I have is goose hunting. I could never afford a guided elk or other big game hunt, so I never hunted elk.

Goose hunting, well, you hit on it, KNOWLEDGE of the subject matter. The guy will gain a lot with experience, but I've had younger guides that were better than older ones, frankly. We had a kid last year in his 30s that was excellent. He set us up right with the wind, his speckle belly calling was among the best I've ever heard. I never had a speck call 'cause they'rre dumb birds and will come to a snow goose call. But, this guy was a Pete Fountain of the speckle belly call. Anyway, I was impressed. He'd graduated from A&M in 2002. He said his major was poultry science. Well, geese are poultry I suppose. ROFL! But, this kid had grown up with geese and goose hunting like I did. He said he had a job working at a chicken packer near Bryan, quit because it got in the way of goose season. The guy was dedicated. Being a goose guide is a tough job, would be for me, anyhow. I don't much like getting up at 3AM and sure wouldn't like doing it EVERY day. But, then, I'm old.

I've had some really dumb guides. I mean, when they start berating your shooting as the reason you're not getting any geese, well, I shoot a shotgun about as good as anyone. Weren't my shooting that couldn't get the birds down out of the stratosphere, was his calling and set up and, well, just the day. Things have to go right even for a guide. But, there's no sense blaming the shooter for such things. Not many people can pull off an 80 yard shot even with a 10 gauge and I was shooting a 3" 12 with BBB steel back then. It's the reason I went to a 10 gauge later and the reason the 3.5" 12 got invented shortly after these ignorant steel shot laws went into effect.

Needless to say, I'm happy I never hunted with THAT guide again!

 

[H&Hhunter]

One of my favorite things to do is teach a flat lander or an out of shape hunter how to climb effectively in the high country. I had a Himalayan climbing guide show me some tricks years ago and by golly they work. When I get that out of shape flat lander client, here is my spiel. "This is not a race!" We are not concerned about how fast we get to the top of the mountain. I then show them how to do a mountaineering rest step and if they don't have a set of trekking poles I will make them a walking stick. I've yet to have anybody not be able to make it to were we need to get after you show them how to relax, save energy and use the time proven techniques that get people to the top of Everest. Being in shape definitely helps but knowing how to walk in the high country is a huge part of having a successful high country experience.

Learning the correct gate, stride and tempo will make you into a mountain climbing monster!

 

[MCgunner]

Well, at my age and condition, just sitting up off the pads they give you to lay out in the rice field is a challenge. LOL! That IS sort of a race because you wanna get a shot off before someone else spooks the birds.

I will likely never hunt the high country again. I self guided on my trips to SE New Mexico back in the day. I had those mountains reconned and knew where the deer would be. It was mulie hunting. They're real proud of their elk herd up there and you would probably do time for shooting one.

That's some pretty rough country, but altitudes weren't bad. There was plenty of air available for a flat lander, fortunately. You can be in top shape and those 10,000 ft hikes uphill can make you feel like a loser. Not really any way to prepare for that in a gym by the placid blue waters of Lavaca Bay.

 

[Robert]

Hey, wait a minute! I've heard that how to walk speech a few times now. I am here to tell you it works. I have a great guide! He is patient with my asthma and being out of shape and even admits when he is wrong when I save us from dropping down the wrong drainage. We've shared some great meals, some great country and some epic hikes in pursuit of elk. And when I get one it will be a heck of a day and I'm glad he'll be there with me.

 

[jmr40]

When younger I did some backpacking and picked up on that walking technique. It does work. While the elevation isn't as bad in the east it can be as steep. My home is at 900', but there are several places here in GA where I hunt and hike above 4000'; some trails in TN over 7000'. Even that is noticeable.

I've been able to make several trips to various mountain west states and done a fair amount of day hiking above 7000' up to about 12,000. Slow and steady is the key. In 2010 I met some guys near Craig CO for a hunt. They had been in state 3-4 days before I was able to get out. Got into camp just before dark and was trying to climb a mountain less than 16 hours later with no time to acclimate. These guys tried to walk fast for 50 yards then stop and rest. It kicked my butt the 1st morning. The next morning I got ready fast and left the trailhead 2-3 minutes ahead of the others using the rest step method. I was slow and steady, but never stopped. Even though I only left 2-3 minutes earlier I got to the top 10-15 minutes ahead of everyone else and wasn't as winded.

Only paid a guide once and I'm a little embarrassed to talk about it. My BIL is coyote hunting crazy. He found a guy that takes guys on guided hunts in NM and talked me into going once. I had no real complaints, but after travel, hotel rooms, food and a NM small game license I spent enough to pay for a CO elk tag. Would have been money better spent, but my BIL had a blast and has returned several times since.

 

[RPRNY]

The most important quality is Professionalism: if one is paying for a guide, one wants the guide's professionalism to be evident, not simply assumed. Professionalism encompasses a number of attributes.

Knowledge of the game and the land to be hunted is important. But this knowledge does not mitigate the need to evidence other aspects of professionalism. Clear evidence of organization, rather than simply an absence of disorganization. This extends to clean and orderly equipment as and when applicable. Calm. There is nothing as obviously unprofessional as a guide in a flap or with a bad temper. I certainly couldn't do it; there are too many jerks in the world. But if your business is guiding, then finding a way to calmly and professionally deal with all clients, including the jerks, even if that means politely but firmly ending a hunt when the jerkish behavior becomes unsafe or unbearable, is critical. And finally, a catch all that I would phrase "attention to the overall experience".

In my admittedly somewhat limited experience of hunting guides, and wider experience of travel and adventure guides, the decent ones work hard for their money, even when it's a lot of money. That matters, but so does the guide recognizing that the client has paid a lot of money, and being attentive without having to be obsequious or overly deferential. It's a really hard job to do well. The best guides are not only subject matter experts, they are psychologists with a deft hand at reading people, and have excellent client facing/people skills. Tough combo.

 

[Patocazador]

I have used about a half dozen guides while hunting and all but one suggested doing things that were borderline illegal in order to get the targeted animal. In Wyoming I was with a guide who regularly "two-timed" his clients (shot at the same time as the client) and laughed about it afterwards. There were usually 2 holes in the animal with one of them being a neck shot.
A guide in Washington suggested he could "get me on a goat" even though he knew I had no goat tag.
After more than my share of these guides, I stopped using one at all and hunted on my own. I was not as successful but I knew that I earned the animal without any shenanigans.

These instances were back in the '70s and early '80s and I don't intend to imply that all guides are like this. It's just that I was not careful enough in choosing ethical guides.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

they are psychologists with a deft hand at reading people, and have excellent client facing/people skills. Tough combo

I might add dealing with some very inexperienced hunters not just in routine hunting situations, but life or death situations where things go bad and total teamwork is required. Keeping panic down among the clients in a bad spot is a necessary guide skill.
Remember, many of these clients have never been more than a few hundred yards from a road. I think the immensely of the wilderness may overwhelm some of them.

 

[Don McDowell]

" In Wyoming I was with a guide who regularly "two-timed" his clients (shot at the same time as the client) and laughed about it afterwards. There were usually 2 holes in the animal with one of them being a neck shot."
Should of turned him in, it's not legal here for a guide to shoot a clients animal, as by law the person doing the shooting is the one that "takes" the animal, and second Wyoming guide regulations prohibit the guide from carrying a firearm , unless the client specifically agree's to it.

 

[LoonWulf]

I can attest to the need to change pace when getting to elevation. Im pretty slow either way, but at anything over about 6k I actually NEED to move a little slower to be in good condition for a shot, at 10k it gets worse.
One of my buddies is a pingpong ball no matter where we are, but he dosent go as far when were up around treeline.

Ive never gone on (could afford) a guided hunt but i agree with what you guys have said in regards to what SHOULD be expected of a hunting guide, you are after all paying for a service, and a fairly expensive one at that. Having dealt with alot of new hunters (cause ill take almost anyone who wants to go) and a few new shooters to boot, I cant imagine how difficult it would be for a inexperienced guide to do a good job should the slightest thing go wrong.

 

[Art Eatman]

Agree with H&H, but I would emphasize patience and self control.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

, I cant imagine how difficult it would be for a inexperienced guide to do a good job should the slightest thing go wrong.

No you can't imagine. Second time I dealt with moose hunting clients I had us flown in to a sand bar on a very moose full river. I knew this because I had flew over it many times and every swamp was full of legal moose. So I get us there and we had some time to kill and I knew the river was full of silver salmon so I just guessed a streamer called a egg sucking Leech might work. I brought 8. This was a hunting trip after all. And it sure did. One after another my clients are hitting silvers, again the egg sucking leech was just a guess on my part. But One of my bozo clients put every cast in a tree and lost all the fly's. So he rags on me for not bringing enough streamer fly's!

 

[LoonWulf]

See what you get for trying to be nice!

So the fly was the egg sucking leech?

Sorry couldn't help myself

 

[BigBore44]

I'll add that something else I would appreciate in a guide is a sense of humor. Hunting is supposed to be fun. If I ever go to Africa, I want to enjoy myself. Yes, I want to take game. But I want someone who can tell stories and jokes that make my sides hurt. Because I'm going to tell jokes and stories. Maybe that's not "professional". But it's enjoyable. Yes I want someone who can take the hunt seriously. Yes, I want someone who can be calm in stressful situations like I am. But at the end of the day, I'm not hunting. WE are hunting. When I leave camp, I want to feel like I've made a friend for life. AND.....Don't call me "Mr. ______". Call me by my name.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

See what you get for trying to be nice!

So the fly was the egg sucking leech?

Sorry couldn't help myself

Yes a egg sucking leech. Just a black tail with a dab of orange in front. I guess looks like, well, a leech with a salmon egg in it's mouth. All though I seriously doubt any of those fresh out of the ocean salmon ever saw a leech, much less one with a egg in it's mouth. But they sure would hit it.

 

[LoonWulf]

I think ive actually seen those, or something similar. one guy i worked with liked to fly fish and we used to steal his flys to jig with at night. He had some black shiny ones with an orange wrap thqt worked really well.

 

[sage5907]

I get a chuckle out of words that are used by people offering a guided hunt in my area. I think the one word that is often missing is "honesty." If they are honest there is less chance the hunter will be disappointed. They often use the word "trophy" when in reality they should be using the word "mature." Another word that is often used is "nice," when translated usually means young or imature. And the word guided hunt can mean hunting from a box blind, which in reality is just a baby sitter for the hunter. They put him in a box to wait for the animal to come by. They don't have to worry about him getting lost or walking all over the area. I was going to my hunting area in Oklahoma a few years ago and a van drove into the property. The guy said he was from South Carolina and was looking for a property hunted by Windmill Outfitters. He showed me a penciled map leading to a deer feeder and even though I was familiar with the area I had no idea where he was being instructed to go. I felt sorry for him because I knew the limited potential of the area, how hard it was to get a mature buck, and I wondered what the outfitter had told him. He had driven all the way from South Carolina, good grief!

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I think ive actually seen those, or something similar. one guy i worked with liked to fly fish and we used to steal his flys to jig with at night. He had some black shiny ones with an orange wrap thqt worked really well.

On what? I always thought it was just a trout/salmon thing.

 

[LoonWulf]

Top water reef predators i guess go after them pretty good. I didnt ever get to fish with the guy who was into it, but he used to bring back Jacks, barracuda, some other stuff i dont know the common names for.
I know guys were fly-fishing for tuna at one point, havent heard about that for a while.

We used to use flys on our night time fishing rigs to jig for red fish. There something called Damashi, that are basically flys set up specially for bottom fishing, they are usually a shiny, only major difference.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I get a chuckle out of words that are used by people offering a guided hunt in my area. I think the one word that is often missing is "honesty." If they are honest there is less chance the hunter will be disappointed. They often use the word "trophy" when in reality they should be using the word "mature." Another word that is often used is "nice," when translated usually means young or imature. And the word guided hunt can mean hunting from a box blind, which in reality is just a baby sitter for the hunter. They put him in a box to wait for the animal to come by. They don't have to worry about him getting lost or walking all over the area. I was going to my hunting area in Oklahoma a few years ago and a van drove into the property. The guy said he was from South Carolina and was looking for a property hunted by Windmill Outfitters. He showed me a penciled map leading to a deer feeder and even though I was familiar with the area I had no idea where he was being instructed to go. I felt sorry for him because I knew the limited potential of the area, how hard it was to get a mature buck, and I wondered what the outfitter had told him. He had driven all the way from South Carolina, good grief!

Exactly right! My definition of a "trophy" or a "nice" critter often is vastly different from a guides. One of the subtle little tests I give a new guide is to ask them to field score a critter we are looking at. If he or she gives me the old "it's a pretty good one" with no attempt at a score or no definition of why they thinks is "a good one" I know immediately that we are not on the same page.

I spent two whole days a couple of years ago explaining to a guide why I wasn't interested in shooting the multiple young barely mature bucks he'd shown me. The guy was nice enough but he had absoloutley no clue about the trophy quality of the animal he was guiding for. By the end of the week I had taught him enough to make a reasonable field judgment and what physical characteristics defined a mature animal. This is an extremely common situation with many guides in the lower 48 of the USA.

 

[Citadel99]

Nobody has mentioned the ability to lay off the refried beans the night before the hunt...

I'd have to say knowledge, humor, patience are my top qualities. Most of my guided hunts have been quail. The knowledge piece there comes with their ability to work the dogs and know the dogs.

Agree with H&H on guides for large game. Most can't score or even age the animals accurately.